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Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Silhouette on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:23PM (#10402092)
That's a very noble position, but I'm not sure it's a very realistic one.

Some mistakes should surely be forgiven in the interests of learning and doing better next time. We might call them "honest mistakes", perhaps actions taken with the best of intentions but which proved to have unexpected and undesirable side effects that could not reasonably have been anticipated.

Other mistakes are either not really mistakes at all or are actions taken by someone who might not have intended the final outcome but should clearly have known better. Consider installing a defeat device in a car to actively circumvent regulations, or a government agent or corporate officer abusing their authority for personal gain, or a police officer who has a track record of being more violent than was necessary when dealing with suspects. At some point, the mistake is no longer relatively harmless or something to be tolerated in the interests of overall progress, it's a demonstration of bad judgement that isn't acceptable for someone in that position.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Zancarius on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:01PM (#10402288)
There's a point in time where you're crossing the boundary from mistakes into the realm of unlawful activities. I think it's very difficult to argue such actions are a mistake (e.g. "I had no idea insider trading was wrong, your honor, it was a mistake!"), because such things are an entirely different class of behaviors. They're intentional, and if such intent can be proven in a court of law, they are usually tried as such. Proving intent is exceedingly important in criminal law.

If you're looking for mistakes that can bring material harm to others, it might be easier to examine industries where errors in judgment lead to physical and/or financial harm. Transportation industries (aviation, trucking, etc), construction, and a whole slew of others offer a variety of examples to choose from that don't necessarily require intentional misuse of resources to cause harm.

Think of how many aircraft accidents have occurred over the decades as a direct consequence of mistakes made by the air crews--or controllers, or maintenance staff--and were, frankly, errors in judgment. Sure, there have been cases where maintenance shortcuts were taken to either save money or time, lead to the deaths of passengers and flight crews, and have been successfully tried in a court of law as negligence (or worse). But that clearly crosses what should hopefully be a distinctive line into unlawful actions, and even still, there have been circumstances where the maintenance staff wasn't held accountable. Again, it's a matter of intent.

So I think context is important. In the case of Microsoft, I don't think that the mistake in question should result in wanton firing. Perhaps if someone could prove that they were materially harmed by the upgrade, then it might be pertinent to seek damages from the company. But oftentimes the developers on staff either did something wrong (and fixed it) or were specifically told to implement that feature by management.

Everything else just seems like splitting hairs.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Silhouette on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:19PM (#10402383)
I agree that intent is very important, but other things matter too, both legally and ethically. If you take on certain responsibilities then, well, you're responsible for them. In law that manifests as things like duties of care, as well as variations on a theme of ignorance of the law not being a defence. In real world terms, a supervisor who failed to spot a serious error that resulted in harm might not be criminally liable because of lack of intent, nor deserving of punishment for an innocent mistake, but their demonstrable lack of competence might still make it inappropriate for them to retain their position.
Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 16, 2015 @10:33PM (#10403182)
True, but there are other forms of punishment than firing. You can cut the pay or demote a person, thus penalizing them for their carelessness while still letting them learn from it and keeping the experience in house.

From my observations, people get fired over mistakes for two reasons - because somebody is stupid/overreactive/wants blood, or because the company wants to signal strong action taken (firing someone whose actions resulted in PR problems).

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 16, 2015 @10:28PM (#10403168)
I agree.

There's also a class of mistake, which I suppose the one discussed here belonged to, that's a combination of 'honest mistake' of a person along with a failure of the system to capture it in time. If it is known that a mistake in e.g. an update process can affect millions of users, a system should be set up to capture those before they have a chance to do real-world damage. Maybe a second person in another team should sign off update changes, etc. Lack of such a system may be considered not-so-honest mistake of senior management. Sadly, some companies design systems preventing (knowledge of) mistakes from getting out instead.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Semiapies on Friday October 16, 2015 @05:49PM (#10402220)
It's a more realistic position than the entitled "GIVE ME BLOOD! SOMEONE MUST SUFFER!" response every time there's a minor glitch.
Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Silhouette on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:15PM (#10402371)
But this isn't a minor glitch. Even if it is possible to reliably reverse the effects of unintentionally installing Windows 10, it is going to waste considerable time and resources for everyone who has to do it. In this case, it also seems generous to assume 100% reliable reversal will be possible without knowing the details of the mechanism used, given the subject we're discussing in the first place.

Cries for blood and similar hyperbole are unlikely to be helpful in any case, but questioning the position of anyone who thought this was acceptable behaviour or who was responsible and signed off on the update seems fair, and so does expecting Microsoft to provide fair compensation if anyone really does get significantly messed around because of this action.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 16, 2015 @10:36PM (#10403195)
> Cries for blood and similar hyperbole are unlikely to be helpful in any case, but questioning the position of anyone who thought this was acceptable behaviour or who was responsible and signed off on the update seems fair, and so does expecting Microsoft to provide fair compensation if anyone really does get significantly messed around because of this action.

Both true, and yet still it doesn't mean you have to fire the poor guy if the mistake was honest, regardless of damage done. Hell, he'll probably be beating himself over it harder than you imagine if the consequences were big.

Also, this: http://i.stack.imgur.com/eJy3b.jpg.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Semiapies on Friday October 16, 2015 @06:29PM (#10402423)
Do you have any evidence to contradict the article's claim that the installer requires human intervention and doesn't work unattended? Because nothing that you're saying is relevant, given that point.
Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Silhouette on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:34PM (#10402659)
Because nothing that you're saying is relevant, given that point.

I disagree. Would an average user, the kind of person who is going to trust updates from Microsoft and leave them on by default and therefore wind up installing in this case in the first place, necessarily realise the significance of one extra confirmation dialog? People are notoriously blind to such messages, so I'd want to see exactly what that extra human intervention involved before making any judgement here.

Re:Windows 10 upgrade installing automatically on some Windo... by Semiapies on Friday October 16, 2015 @07:59PM (#10402760)
Is "an average user" going to have expensive ramifications from updating from 7 or 8 to 10?