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Re:I'm Begging for Work by Bonogongo on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:24AM (#10196554)
He blackmailed his boss, used f* f* f* in a conversation with him and you think "hink he's shown himself to have good character here."? Holy Batman.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by everyone on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:30AM (#10196576)
I shall never utter the dreaded F word to my boss. I will to my boss be true and faithful and love all which he loves and shun all which he shuns.

Also please explain where he 'blackmailed' his boss?

Re:I'm Begging for Work by Bonogongo on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:40AM (#10196604)
You can do what you like, but if you swear at me and call me f* I'll not hire you.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by etchalon on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:29AM (#10196789)
That's ridiculous.

Good managers let their employees vent, when necessary, and don't take it personally.

Insecure ones get all uppity about things like that.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by DanBC on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:41AM (#10196829)
Since the world is full of pretty poor managers "don't swear at your boss" is pragmatic advice. It'd be nice if all managers had the skill to recognise that a bit of venting is probably healthy.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by etchalon on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:54AM (#10196875)
"Don't work for managers you can't swear at," would be my advice to the world :D
Re:I'm Begging for Work by DanBC on Thursday September 10, 2015 @05:21AM (#10196963)
That's good advice for people who are in a position to chose who they work for. Is OP in that position?
Re:I'm Begging for Work by mcv on Thursday September 10, 2015 @10:29AM (#10198223)
Yeah, but there's a lot of insecure managers out there, and if you're desperate for a job, you need to take that into account.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by louhike on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:14AM (#10196730)
He used the f* word in a specific context. And can you answer when did he blackmail his boss?
Re:I'm Begging for Work by nilkn on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:26AM (#10196565)
Where is the part where he blackmailed anyone?
Re:I'm Begging for Work by Bonogongo on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:29AM (#10196573)
@nilkin "You give me more money or I leave." vs. Just walking away from the negotiation. From my experience if you give in to "You give me more money or I leave" 6 months down the road it will be another "You give me more money or I leave" and then another.

Wikipedia: "Blackmail is an act [..] involving unjustified threats to make [..] cause loss to another unless a demand is met."

Re:I'm Begging for Work by nilkn on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:34AM (#10196590)
It sounds like you've had a bad experience with a former employee, but this is not blackmail. That's just standing up for himself. The OP was working there contingent on his boss's promise of a raise, and both parties knew this, including the boss. In fact, the OP was remarkably generous towards his boss by doing something very foolish: knowingly taking an unlivable wage out of trust that the boss would live up to his word.

Regarding your Wikipedia quote, leaving a job in which you are abused and underpaid is not at all unjustified.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by Bonogongo on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:40AM (#10196601)
It sounds like you have done this in the past, and it is blackmail.

And I understand that you don't want to see yourself as a blackmailer.

"I'm more worth than that" and leaving is standing up.

"Give me more money or I leave" is blackmail.

"Regarding your Wikipedia quote, leaving a job in which you are abused and underpaid is not at all unjustified."

Leaving is not the blackmail part, threatening to leave is the blackmail part.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by skissane on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:28AM (#10196784)
Blackmail is a crime in many jurisdictions whose legal systems derive from England. The precise definition varies, but a classic example would be if I knew you had committed a crime, and threatened to report it to the authorities unless you paid me. See for example 18 US Code 873 - https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/873

No one would ever be found guilty of blackmail for simply saying "Give me a pay rise or else I'll resign". (But, "Give me a pay rise or else I'll report your illegal activities to the authorities" would be blackmail.) The essence of blackmail is demanding money for an illegitimate reason - money which you are not legitimately due - and there is nothing inherently illegitimate about demanding a pay rise. It simply means that you put a different value on your own labour than your employer currently does, and if you and they cannot reach agreement on that value, you'll look for someone else with whom you agree more.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by sgk284 on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:16AM (#10196739)
Have you never negotiated anything? This isn't blackmail. He's leveraging an asset (his talents) for compensation. If Netflix is negotiating licensing rights to a movie and the owner of the rights says "We want more money or we won't license this to you." that's not blackmail. It's negotiating a deal. In this case the guy is saying "I want more money or I won't work for you any more."

It is absolutely the correct call. He was being taken advantage of. He used his only point of leverage to get a fairer deal.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by icebraining on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:01AM (#10196686)
First, blackmail is about information, so if anything it would be extortion.

And it's not extortion because the "threat" was not wrongful; the boss is not his owner nor is he entitled to his work.

The word you're looking for is haggling, and it's a common part of negotiations.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by DanBC on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:09AM (#10196718)
But "give me more money or I'll leave" is a bad way to go about haggling, and is likely to lead to the employee leaving. "I'm worth more than you're paying" is better, even though the employer and employee both know that "and if yu don't pay me more I'll leave" is an unspoken part of that sentence.

HN regularly mentions the book "how to win friends and influence people" or talks about hacking various interpersonal processes.

This is just an interpersonal hack. Saying "give me more money or I'll leave" causes many - but admittedly not all - managers to respond with "go ahead and leave then", even when the manager knows that replacing the leavig employee will require a higher wage than the employee is currently getting and some expenditure on the recruitment process.

People are not rational and they do mot make rational decisions. We know that management, and recruitment, is very broken.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by icebraining on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:39AM (#10196821)
Oh, for sure, it's not a good negotiation tactic, no argument there.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by gliese1337 on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:05AM (#10196700)
"Give me more money or I leave" is not blackmail. That is called an "ultimatum".

Blackmail is defined as a demand for money in exchange for not revealing compromising or injurious information.

"Give me more money or I will publish these naked photos of you" is blackmail.

One of those is illegal. The other one isn't.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by hwstar on Thursday September 10, 2015 @11:48AM (#10198727)
Think of it like that Jaba the Hutt/thermal detonator scene in Star Wars episode 6:

"This bounty hunter is my kind of scum, Fearless and Inventive"

When dealing with sociopaths,, to negotiate from a position of strength; you need to have an offer in hand from another employer, because it is very likely that you could be fired on the spot when you confront this type of individual. The sociopath doesn't care, and will just find someone else to exploit.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by etchalon on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:27AM (#10196781)
You have absolutely no idea what the word blackmail means.

What he did was give his boss an entirely reasonable ultimatum.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by chrisbennet on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:15AM (#10196736)
It's called negotiation.

I can see how it might seem threatening to someone who feels threatened by the thought of an employee standing up for himself.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by azernik on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:41PM (#10200127)
"Give me more money or I leave" is negotiation (specifically, an ultimatum), and is a perfectly legitimate tactic. Standing up and leaving is throwing a tantrum (or a last resort if the ultimatum fails) - doing so without first telling the other party your problem and giving them a chance to fix it is completely unprofessional.

WRT your definition of blackmail, I'm getting "the action, treated as a criminal offense, of demanding money from a person in return for not revealing compromising or injurious information about that person." It's a VERY specific term having to do with hidden information.

What you cited seems closer to the definition of extortion ("the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats"), but frankly, as long as what you're threatening to do is legal, that's business.

Your relationship with your employer is first and foremost a business relationship - they are not your best friend, your family, or your surrogate father. You have no obligation to play nice with their feelings.

I understand your impulse to not give in to an employee that demands like this, but you need to drop the moralizing BS - what you're saying is "they know what they're worth and I can't afford to pay that, so I'll only hire employees who don't know what they're worth". Sound accurate?

Re:I'm Begging for Work by maze-le on Thursday September 10, 2015 @05:35AM (#10197018)
> threatening to leave is the blackmail part.

That is bs, leaving is the only leverage you have as an employee. If you do't use it, you might have a problem, because you lack the ability to negotiate. The age of feudalism is over you know...

To be fair, this could have been wrapped up in some better language, like "I don't think my salary is reflecting my talents", but in the end it all boils down to leaving for a better opportunity

Re:I'm Begging for Work by eyko on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:12AM (#10196725)
No, it's not blackmail. It's a salary negotiation.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by glyxbaer on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:11AM (#10196721)
How is that blackmailing? It's negotiating salary. If you can't pay me a livable wage- or a wage that I am worth- I'll look for a job somewhere else.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by chrisbennet on Thursday September 10, 2015 @09:52AM (#10197982)
After being strung along (he was lied to) for months he made a totally justified ultimatum to be paid what he's worth or he'd go somewhere that would.

A manager who knows someone is worth it but would still rather let me go than pay market price for their labor (because he doesn't like negotiating when he's not in a position of absolute power) is probably doing so because he can't man up and negotiate with someone his own size figuratively speaking. The stereotypical "I'm not letting a woman tell me what to do." sort of insecurity/attitude.

Employees have been "on the bottom" in the traditional work relationship for so long, it can seem "unfair" to employers to have to deal with employees on a more level playing field.

Re:I'm Begging for Work by argc on Thursday September 10, 2015 @03:35AM (#10196593)
If I was offered that much I would say the same thing. Although, I might try to have something else lined up first.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by gayprogrammer on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:00AM (#10196679)
Paying an employee for work and services is not "a loss". It's an exchange.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by lagadu on Thursday September 10, 2015 @05:56AM (#10197084)
I'll go further and say it's an investment.
Re:I'm Begging for Work by MisterBastahrd on Thursday September 10, 2015 @01:28PM (#10199362)
Um...

that's exactly how salary negotiations work. If I don't do a good enough job, you demote or fire me. If I do a good enough job AND the market says I should make X, then X - Y isn't fucking good enough, and you should be warned that I'm happy to find an employer that WILL pay me what I ask for.