Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by SifJar on Sunday September 06, 2015 @06:07PM
(#10179254)
It is a kit for developing software i.e. an SDK. Yes, right now it is very limited - it has only recently been made public, it is still in the very early stages. In addition, the limitations of current code execution methods (not fully public at present - the exploit used is public, code execution method is still private) inflict limitations on the software being developed.
Nonetheless, this is an SDK capable of producing software that can be run on the PS4, and so the title of PS4 SDK is perfectly apt. It never claims to be from Sony, and it should be evident to anyone with even a vague familiarity with homebrew/console hacking that it is not associated with them in anyway. And most HN users would be able to tell from looking at the code that it is very much bare bones and thus unlikely to be published by the company that made the console.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by SifJar on Tuesday September 08, 2015 @07:57AM
(#10185149)
This SDK has nothing directly to do with the current code execution method. There is no reason why this same SDK won't be expanded once a better exploit is found.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by jokoon on Sunday September 06, 2015 @07:32AM
(#10177371)
So... can one load a game on the PS4 at home using that, or is just intended to emulate the playstation on a PC ? I don't understand the intention behind making this open source, seeing all the loaded piracy history of the playstation consoles.
Kinda feels like it's a little short for a SDK too, but I'm no expert.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by SifJar on Sunday September 06, 2015 @08:34AM
(#10177449)
It runs via an exploit found about a year ago in WebKit [1] , and allows running custom code. It does not enable piracy, as that would require greater system access. It allows running simple applications, with severe limitations (can't use native video out or controllers; workarounds employed are using an HTML Canvas for visual output and a Nintendo DS for control).
It is a very basic SDK right now, it is still in development and has a long way to go. Considering the exploit to run code only works on FW 1.76 (~1 year old), there presumably aren't many people able to run code anyway.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by stinos on Sunday September 06, 2015 @09:10AM
(#10177527)
Kinda feels like it's a little short for a SDK too
It sure is, also a bit sad that it takes such detours to be able to write software for such devices. Years ago when the first PSP came out things were different. I bought the PSP just because I saw there was a rather complete SDK available for it (also made available by hacking around and reverse engineering IIRC, but at least it was more than enough to write actual applications): it included access to buttons, sockets/wifi, raw framebuffer access etc. Which led to the availability of fun things like a working VNC client which was super impressive to me back then (remember that's like 5 years before the first iPad). I had only like one game which I never really played but instead I spent hours writing mini games and setting up communication between the PSP and a PC, using it as remote control and whatnot.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by Narishma on Sunday September 06, 2015 @10:07AM
(#10177677)
> I had only like one game which I never really played but instead I spent hours writing mini games and setting up communication between the PSP and a PC, using it as remote control and whatnot.
And that's exactly why manufacturers go to such lengths to prevent people from hacking on their consoles. With the way they are priced, and depending on when you bought that PSP, it may have cost Sony money if you didn't buy any games for it.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by pandaman on Sunday September 06, 2015 @01:27PM
(#10178298)
What length exactly?
Both Sony and MS released, at some point, SDKs that could use a retail unit for development [1,2,3,4] so I am not sure this is exactly why.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by venomsnake on Sunday September 06, 2015 @02:27PM
(#10178486)
> And that's exactly why manufacturers go to such lengths to prevent people from hacking on their consoles. With the way they are priced, and depending on when you bought that PSP, it may have cost Sony money if you didn't buy any games for it.
There is this revolutionary business idea of selling stuff at profit. Cross subsidizing always bites you in the ass. Loss leaders too.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by Wofiel on Sunday September 06, 2015 @07:49AM
(#10177390)
The PS4-Pong example in the README has a YouTube video[1] so it's physically possible to run something with the HTML5 canvas renderer, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of instructions to do so up there.
As for the sparseness, definitely true, the SDK really doesn't have much in the way of functionality yet, but I'm kind of surprised by what they have so far.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by SifJar on Monday September 07, 2015 @03:04PM
(#10182603)
There are no instructions because the code exec method is not (yet?) public. The exploit is, but not the payload to run applications. There is no announced release date for code exec method, or indeed announced plans to release, as far as I am aware.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by jparishy on Sunday September 06, 2015 @01:13PM
(#10178248)
Not entirely related but just reading this brought back a lot of memories of the PSP homebrew scene. I miss those days. Idolizing Dark_Alex was what got me into software.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by lostgame on Sunday September 06, 2015 @03:03PM
(#10178631)
Me, too. Got my CFW loaded up on my PSP-1000...it's lovely wide screen, really nice Sony-quality controls, great battery life (with homebrew...) and superb homebrew and emulation support, it's not a wonder
a) I still use it for GBA/Sega Genesis emulation nearly every day but
b) I've never used a single UMD with the device and
c) I don't know anyone who has.
Kinda like the Dreamcast, which was also amazing but had even the most inexperienced users rushing to Wal-Mart to grab a stack of blank CD's to make their very own Kazaa-downloaded copy of 'Seaman.'
If Sony had actually pandered to the homebrew scene (yeah, I know that sounds like a joke, but I'm saying 'if'...) they could have opened up something like the App store even earlier on, where the barrier of entry for indie developers is existent but small.
I'd be interested to actually look up some numbers, but I imagine software sales for the PSP, especially the early generation, must have been fairly abysmal.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by roflchoppa on Sunday September 06, 2015 @03:03PM
(#10178633)
alright, im getting my old PSP's outta the drawers and getting them back up and running.
I remember being in HighSchool charging people to install custom firmware on their units. good times.
I started tinkering with hardware after buying someones psp that had a broken screen for like 20 bucks, and replacing the display through ebay. good times. although the analog stick sometimes broke.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by SifJar on Sunday September 06, 2015 @08:25AM
(#10177437)
I believe it runs using the WebKit exploit available on FW 1.76
This means it's probably not very useful to most end users who generally will have upgraded by this point (the exploit is about a year old), but it allows developers to continue working on the SDK for whenever another exploit is found, and possibly allows further investigation of the PS4, potentially allowing the discovery of new exploits.
Re:Open-source Playstation 4 SDK
by oxide on Sunday September 06, 2015 @01:00PM
(#10178193)
I have a passing interest in this kind of thing, for novelty's sake more than anything.
I might have to buy the next console that comes out and just leave it boxed up in the closet for a year or two, so when this stuff surfaces I can experiment. I feel oddly left out when I hear about this stuff and either don't have the correct version or just don't have the hardware itself.
I had a friend growing up with an amazing PS2 that basically functioned as a media server. Absolutely blew me away at the time.
1. http://cturt.github.io/ps4.html
2. http://cturt.github.io/ps4-2.html
They cover pretty much every question about the WebKit exploit and this open-source SDK.
this is nothing but a hack-y way to exploit a browser and get access to very limited functionality. It can barely be called 'ps4 homebrew sdk'.
Nonetheless, this is an SDK capable of producing software that can be run on the PS4, and so the title of PS4 SDK is perfectly apt. It never claims to be from Sony, and it should be evident to anyone with even a vague familiarity with homebrew/console hacking that it is not associated with them in anyway. And most HN users would be able to tell from looking at the code that it is very much bare bones and thus unlikely to be published by the company that made the console.
that is the point. it is and will always be very limited. at most, it will be a able to write a loader to a higher level exploit.
Kinda feels like it's a little short for a SDK too, but I'm no expert.
It is a very basic SDK right now, it is still in development and has a long way to go. Considering the exploit to run code only works on FW 1.76 (~1 year old), there presumably aren't many people able to run code anyway.
[1] http://wololo.net/2014/10/24/webkit-exploit-confirmed-to-run...
It sure is, also a bit sad that it takes such detours to be able to write software for such devices. Years ago when the first PSP came out things were different. I bought the PSP just because I saw there was a rather complete SDK available for it (also made available by hacking around and reverse engineering IIRC, but at least it was more than enough to write actual applications): it included access to buttons, sockets/wifi, raw framebuffer access etc. Which led to the availability of fun things like a working VNC client which was super impressive to me back then (remember that's like 5 years before the first iPad). I had only like one game which I never really played but instead I spent hours writing mini games and setting up communication between the PSP and a PC, using it as remote control and whatnot.
And that's exactly why manufacturers go to such lengths to prevent people from hacking on their consoles. With the way they are priced, and depending on when you bought that PSP, it may have cost Sony money if you didn't buy any games for it.
1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Mobile
2.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_2
3.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS
4.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_XNA
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_Yaroze
There is this revolutionary business idea of selling stuff at profit. Cross subsidizing always bites you in the ass. Loss leaders too.
As for the sparseness, definitely true, the SDK really doesn't have much in the way of functionality yet, but I'm kind of surprised by what they have so far.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNqKyuTDbjE
##psp-programming represent!
a) I still use it for GBA/Sega Genesis emulation nearly every day but
b) I've never used a single UMD with the device and
c) I don't know anyone who has.
Kinda like the Dreamcast, which was also amazing but had even the most inexperienced users rushing to Wal-Mart to grab a stack of blank CD's to make their very own Kazaa-downloaded copy of 'Seaman.'
If Sony had actually pandered to the homebrew scene (yeah, I know that sounds like a joke, but I'm saying 'if'...) they could have opened up something like the App store even earlier on, where the barrier of entry for indie developers is existent but small.
I'd be interested to actually look up some numbers, but I imagine software sales for the PSP, especially the early generation, must have been fairly abysmal.
I started tinkering with hardware after buying someones psp that had a broken screen for like 20 bucks, and replacing the display through ebay. good times. although the analog stick sometimes broke.
This means it's probably not very useful to most end users who generally will have upgraded by this point (the exploit is about a year old), but it allows developers to continue working on the SDK for whenever another exploit is found, and possibly allows further investigation of the PS4, potentially allowing the discovery of new exploits.
I might have to buy the next console that comes out and just leave it boxed up in the closet for a year or two, so when this stuff surfaces I can experiment. I feel oddly left out when I hear about this stuff and either don't have the correct version or just don't have the hardware itself.
I had a friend growing up with an amazing PS2 that basically functioned as a media server. Absolutely blew me away at the time.