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Re:Do rent controls work? by cperciva on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @12:43AM (#10150766)
There are literally not enough apartments for the people who want to come into the city

"Want to come into the city" isn't a yes/no proposition. How much are those people willing to pay to come into the city?

I'm sure there are plenty of people who are living in SF right now who are not willing to pay $3000 to live there. Lucky for them, they don't have to, because their rent is controlled at a lower price than that.

In a free rental market, you would see some current SF residents leave because they're not willing to pay market rates, but the market rate would drop as a result. In other words, long time residents would move out to make space for the people who want to move in and are willing to pay for the privilege.

Re:Do rent controls work? by nfoz on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:06AM (#10150816)
> In a free rental market, you would see some current SF residents leave because they're not willing to pay market rates, but the market rate would drop as a result. In other words, long time residents would move out to make space for the people who want to move in and are willing to pay for the privilege.

I don't get why there's so much agreement here that that's the desirable outcome. Allowing people to be quickly, dynamically uprooted out of their homes as price volatility swings up and down in different areas -- that has a lot of real human (read: economic) costs associated with it that are not obviously to account for. For example, the difficulty that children will face by being uprooted from their schools and friendships.

Obviously the cost-benefit of any particular program requires very careful analysis, but I think there's quite some value in the idea of stabilizing rent to allow people agility to make the appropriate life changes that correspond with changing housing.

Re:Do rent controls work? by cperciva on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @02:39AM (#10151015)
I don't get why there's so much agreement here that that's the desirable outcome.

I never claimed that it was. I was just refuting the claim that removing rent controls would result in everybody paying the pre-rent-control-removal market rate.

Re:Do rent controls work? by kelnos on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @07:26PM (#10156503)
I don't get why there's so much agreement here that that's the desirable outcome.

I'm not sure that's the case. For me, at least, I believe there are better ways than rent control to keep people of lesser means in their homes. A benefit of finding one of those means, and killing rent control, would be that the lower median rent would also benefit people of higher socio-economic status who feel the crunch but wouldn't be eligible for low-income housing.

Re:Do rent controls work? by timr on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:00AM (#10150802)
"In a free rental market, you would see some current SF residents leave because they're not willing to pay market rates, but the market rate would drop as a result. In other words, long time residents would move out to make space for the people who want to move in and are willing to pay for the privilege."

So your argument is that the people who can't afford the asking price would move out, and the people who can afford that rate would take their place, and the net result would be that market rate would go down? Um.

What you mean to say is that market rate would go down for the average new arrival. But why should anyone who already lives here care about that person? Because they work for a startup?

Re:Do rent controls work? by cperciva on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @02:04AM (#10150957)
What you mean to say is that market rate would go down for the average new arrival.

I was taking the words "market rate" to mean "rate negotiated by people operating at arms length" as opposed to "rate dictated by government without any negotiations having taken place". But yes.

But why should anyone who already lives here care about that person?

They don't. And that's exactly the problem with rent controls: They benefit the current local residents at the expense of future residents, and hurt society as a whole. It's the same problem as property tax controls (current owners pay lower rates than future owners) and union seniority rules (current union members get paid more than future union members), which is why some states have laws prohibiting rent control in spite of the desire by local governments to impose it.

Re:Do rent controls work? by timr on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @04:00AM (#10151234)
"that's exactly the problem with rent controls: They benefit the current local residents at the expense of future residents, and hurt society as a whole."

One man's problem is another man's social policy. I don't see this preference as anything more than a societal decision to give some value to social stability.

Re:Do rent controls work? by cperciva on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @04:40AM (#10151325)
Fair enough. I find granting value to societal stability to be troubling, since it tends to privilege people who are already privileged - wealthy whites, for example.
Re:Do rent controls work? by simoncion on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:48PM (#10154339)
I mean no offense, but I'm sure that the Latino families in The Mission and the Asian families in Japantown, Chinatown, and the Outer Sunset/Richmond [0] greatly appreciate the stability that rent control provides in a city that's inexplicably rabidly anti-development. :)

[0] To the knee-jerk downvoters: look up the demographic stats for those districts before you downvote. :)

Re:Do rent controls work? by simoncion on Tuesday September 01, 2015 @01:27AM (#10150877)
> In a free rental market, you would see some current SF residents leave because they're not willing to pay market rates, but the market rate would drop as a result.

timr has it right on the nose. The only way what you propose works is if that market (or nearby markets) is not supply-constrained.