There are a lot of court decisions that say they can, and none of those have been changed.

What happened here is

A. he was leaving the country, not entering it.

B. they confiscated his laptop for an extended period of time, moved it, searched it, etc.

"It is true that Kim’s laptop was seized at the border – in this case, LAX – but it was not even opened, much less searched, there. It was transported approximately 150 miles to San Diego, it was retained for a limited period of time, and eventually, the laptop was returned."

They can't do that :)

Does LAX have something weird here, or was he literally just sitting in an airport lounge along with people flying to Chicago or Houston or Kansas City and they seized his stuff "at the border" just because he was going to board an international flight? That seems completely mad.

The U.S. government agencies with border search authority, especially ICE and CBP, claim the power to search both people who are arriving and departing the U.S. under that authority. They've decided to exercise this power much more regularly for arriving travelers than for departing travelers, in particular by physically making everyone pass through a CBP immigration and customs control checkpoint when they arrive in the U.S.

But they claim the power to do exactly the same kinds of examinations for people who are leaving the country; they just do this so rarely that they haven't built physical facilities to interview or search departing travelers on a large scale.

My impression is that they believe this authority commences when you begin the process of leaving the country, probably by checking in for your international flight. I don't know how that would work if you have a domestic connection prior to the international departure (if they would think they could perform a border search in the first airport or only in the second airport). Yes, that does mean that a CBP or ICE agent could come find you at the TSA checkpoint or, more likely, in the departure area or at your boarding gate and search or question you. This is true even if there are other passengers in the same terminal who aren't traveling internationally; whether the passengers are treated as subject to the border search authority could depend on where they're individually going, not just what physical part of the airport they're in.

I've never heard of this happening, but the agencies have policies for doing it.

Yes.

There are pilot programs at land borders requiring US citizens to submit to exit interviews and obtain permission to leave the country East Berlin-style. Searches on departure are being stepped up every year.

Recently in Atlanta the border cops were stopping everyone in the jetway boarding my international flight for an exit interview and search. They appeared to be looking for money and drugs and asked all of us in plain view to account for exactly how much cash we were carrying before we could be allowed to board. Since the place I was going and Atlanta are both known for petty robbery, I obviously didn't want to answer; the amount I was carrying was under the legal limit but enough to be worth stealing. The border cop was obviously annoyed and insisted on me saying the amount in front of everyone.

As long as police agency budgets shoot skyward and Americans are happy to submit to authorities, the sky's the limit.

There are procedures whereby I can be put in jail, removing my permission to leave the room where I've been forcibly relocated. But that doesn't mean I have to "obtain permission to leave the room" right now.

The no-fly list is utterly reprehensible, but it doesn't match what was said.

The CBP is cooperating with Canada to exchange information at border posts in real time about whom to permit to enter or leave over land borders and pressuring Mexico to join. Tracking is already in place. Secret prohibition on leaving by air is already in place for selected persons.

The U.S. government seems to generally support UDHR article 13(2) ("Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country") and ICCPR article 12(2) ("Everyone shall be free to leave any country, including his own"). The no-fly list definitely can be a serious problem for this, although people on it often can leave by boat or overland -- though they might have trouble getting the money or necessary visas to do so.

Also, some incidents of investigating and attempting to deport overstays who were deeply integrated into communities and clearly doing super-productive things have led to bad PR for immigration authorities, which could be another reason those authorities are incentivized not to get too good at it (though influenced by factors like what part of the country, where the people have migrated from, what their socioeconomic status is, and others).

On December 5, 2012, working with a LAX duty agent and Customs and Border Protection officers, Special Agent Hamako conducted the planned search of Kim as he departed the country. First, he searched Kim’s checked luggage, which was located behind the check-in counter with Korean Airlines. [...]

Next, Special Agent Hamako stopped Kim on the jetway between the gate and the airplane as Kim was boarding his flight. He identified himself and asked Kim if he had any electronics, to which Kim responded that he had a laptop. Special Agent Hamako told Kim that he would be detaining the laptop pursuant to a border search and that he would return it once the search was complete.

(from https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013cr0...)

There are usually no checks when you leave the country, but they do happen sometimes. Once when I flew out of Philadelphia, there were people at the jetway wearing some kind of uniforms, who asked to see everybody's passports. No idea what they were looking for.

Is LAX different?

But it's not at all the way things work in US airports with international service.

The U.S. doesn't offer this, seemingly as a matter of policy, something which really annoys international travelers -- it's one of the most-complained-about U.S. policies on sites like FlyerTalk, even by U.S. citizens (because you can easily spend 1-2 hours clearing immigration, customs, and security for an international flight connection in the U.S. even if you didn't intend to visit the U.S. at all).

But as a result, almost all U.S. airports have some departing international and domestic passengers in the same terminal at the same time, or potentially allow both international and domestic departures from any terminal.

I think the specific option at LAX was post-2001, but you had to be on a specific pair of flights to take advantage of it. (I didn't do it, I just read about it on FlyerTalk and forgot the details.)

Yesterday I had a purely-domestic itinerary out of Philadelphia -- which is an international hub for US Airways/American Airlines -- and while waiting on my flight I wandered in and out of the international terminal several times without facing any additional security (I like watching the larger planes come and go, and the lounge in that terminal is nicer).

Which is the standard way international airports work in the US. There is no concept of "once you cross this point, you have to clear customs again to exit the terminal" here.

Not casting doubt on what you say, I just haven't seen this myself. I've never flown internationally out of LAX. Only domestically once, and I hope it will be my last!

I don't travel much international, like twice a year, but know dates in advance. I clone my drive and ship image encrypted ahead of my trip. I travel with laptop without hard drive in it.

This is of course, inconvenience, but not illegal. Many times they will ask me to "turn it on" to make sure this is not a bomb disguised as a laptop, but you don't need a hard drive to have BIOS flash on your screen.

- I have porn on my computer, obviously not underage but what am I supposed to say if the border agent asks me "Is this subject underage?"

- I use a false name on Facebook. This is impersonation against an american interest.

- I've downloaded torrents. Even if I delete the files, I'm pretty sure there are footprints everywhere. Pretty sure there's jail time for piracy, and being my third offense in this list, I'm pretty sure it could be considered as a repeat offense.

There's a reason why we have a right to privacy. It's because everyone has very fluid limits on things that are forbidden, and everyone, including elected officials, breaks them. But not everyone is punished. So I'd rather not cross the US border.

- "No."

- "Alright. Please follow Officer Bob over here.", he said pointing to the huge guy who just started putting on a fresh pair of rubber gloves.

- "NEXT!"

- "Sir could you please let us look in your laptop?"

But now I have to deal with going to court and I imagine I'll still pay a fine.

Basically, they what the key to do the lookup in the DB by policy ID because their tables are not quite joined the right way... :)

Which is the point, by the way; most LEOs know people would rather pay a fine than deal with court.

> Most definitely not.

It depends how information about this case gets disseminated. The sooner and wider it spreads, the more unacceptable it will be for rogue agents to overstep the law. After all, citizens can now sue for damages accrued while traveling without the laptop.

Unless there is some penalty to be paid by the officers for breaking the rules, the abuses will continue.

If they start having to pay damages out of their personal assets or getting sent home without pay, they'll get the message.

Until that happens, the status quo will continue.

Right now, it's probably beneficial or at least harmless for an LEO to seize a laptop without a justification that holds up in court. The same goes for their superior allowing or outright instructing them to do so. And so forth all the way up the chain.

There is no direct impact on the LEO who does it from the court decision that it was unjustified. Unless they or their superiors (or someone higher up the chain) are personally held accountable, why should anything change?

It's not a problem with individuals. It's a systemic problem and it needs a systemic solution. There have to be disincentives for someone at some level. Damages paid by the state don't cut it (unless those damages add up to a number high enough for someone to get annoyed by them).