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Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by qiqing on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @04:44PM (#10082056)
We humans are biologically quite different from a lot of the species we experiment on. To take a salient example, we've cured cancer (all sorts of cancers) in mice hundreds of times. It's unlikely you'll find a tumor in a mouse we can't fix. But the same things don't work in humans.

And although I feel like a weird contrarian saying this, it's entirely possible that by selecting for treatments that are effective in other species, we may be inadvertently missing out on things that might work in humans.

Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by rcthompson on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @07:21PM (#10082843)
Keep in mind that the typical life span of a lab mouse is about 2 years. If your criterion for "curing cancer" in humans is based on the cancer not returning for just 2 years after treatment, then we've also "cured cancer" in many humans.
Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by danieltillett on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @11:32PM (#10083538)
While I agree with you that we are quite different to mice, as far as I know we can’t cure cancer in mice. What we can cure is artificial cancers (i.e those injected into mice), but I know of no study where anyone has tried and succeed curing mouse cancer that replicates human cancer (i.e. let the mice age and develop cancer naturally then treat).

If anyone know of a natural cancer cure study in mice or rats that has been published please get in contact with me (or post here) as I have been looking for one for years.

Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by Florin_Andrei on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @05:27PM (#10082324)
> we've cured cancer (all sorts of cancers) in mice hundreds of times. It's unlikely you'll find a tumor in a mouse we can't fix.

Wait, what? Really?

If that's true, I can see only one explanation - with mice models, we can do far more aggressive research, and therefore we cover a bigger chunk of the parameter space. Some of the same research strategies may not be ethical with human models.

Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by icegreentea on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @07:35PM (#10082887)
Well, there's a whole bunch of other stuff too. Most of the time with animal models, we induce cancer by a variety of means - examples include using breeds with certain cancer suppressing genes knocked out, heavy exposure to carcinogens, or direct grafting/injection. These are all mechanisms of getting cancer that are extremely atypical in the human beings we are trying to cure, which may (I think its super likely, especially in the case of knockout genes and grafting) influence cancer-treatment interaction.
Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by danieltillett on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @11:35PM (#10083554)
Exactly. I know of no mouse study that actually tries to replicate what we want to do in humans.

In regards looking for a cure for cancer we are like the drunk who lost their keys in the dark alleyway, but who is searching around the street lamp since the light is better. Until we actually start doing the right studies we will really struggle getting anywhere.

Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by andy_ppp on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @06:05PM (#10082535)
I too am absolutely fascinated by this. Seems to be this behaviour that humans have to mine a particular area until it's completely exhausted - you can see this in capitalism, in art, in fossil fuel consumption/extraction, in mouse and animal models of drug trails, silicon computer chips, Internet businesses, search engines and everything else.

We never seem to realise while we are on the part of the curve that's accelerating (and things are great) that it's actually a bell curve. There are probably people writing things about this sort of stuff, how we can maybe start to overlap our understanding, maybe even measure what part of the curve we are on? Maybe get governments to invest money into new technologies just at the right points...

Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by eru on Wednesday August 19, 2015 @02:59AM (#10084030)
> Seems to be this behaviour that humans have to mine a particular area until it's completely exhausted [...] in fossil fuel consumption/extraction [...]

Not actually true. There are lots of examples of mines closing down because exploiting them further is not economical. Some of them restart operations when prices for the dug up commodity rise.

(A Google search for `mine reopening' easily finds a few examples in the news around the globe.)

Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by srajabi on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @04:53PM (#10082130)
Wow! Do you have data or a source for this?
Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by bunderbunder on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @05:05PM (#10082187)
One example that goes in the opposite direction is the difficulties researchers have had in coming up with an animal model for studying the risks of tobacco exposure: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17661225
Re:Registered clinical trials make positive findings vanish by iamcurious on Tuesday August 18, 2015 @05:29PM (#10082339)
You caught my interest. Can you pass me some sources?