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Re:Change Your Name by natch on Sunday August 09, 2015 @04:07PM (#10031377)
You completely ignored PG's argument about it signaling weakness. This is one of those perception versus reality things, where people's perceptions (those who are judging a startup) ARE the reality, whether those perceptions are theoretically refutable or not.

In other words, let's say you're right, and owning the .com domain name is becoming less meaningful (an argument that PG already addressed, by the way). That doesn't mean that .com domains are becoming significantly less meaningful to people's perceptions. And perceptions matter, when going after customers, funders, employees, business partners, etc.

I wouldn't say that the perception that having the .com domain name is important is an incorrect one. Maybe you would disagree and say it is an incorrect perception. But even if you think the perception is incorrect, the perception is still part of the reality that the startup lives in.

This classic "perception IS reality" pattern is something that a lot of people miss.

Re:Change Your Name by BinaryIdiot on Sunday August 09, 2015 @06:48PM (#10031835)
I didn't ignore PG's argument at all. My point is how can there be any perceived weakness when the thing in which we're calling a weakness doesn't exist to most users?

When I, admittedly anecdotally, poll people I've met who were practically born after the Internet started, almost none of them even type in .com and a few didn't even know what that was. I'm convinced this sentiment is going to become more common especially with so many squatters on .com domains it's almost impossible to have a good company domain name anymore without spending stupid money to get it. Yet you can get the same name with a different TLD for cheap and you show up at the top of search results.

I'd love to see more search engines or maybe even a decentralized search infrastructure to help facilitate this but that's pretty difficult.

Re:Change Your Name by a3_nm on Sunday August 09, 2015 @06:04PM (#10031744)
I suspect that your parent is conjecturing that the fact of not having X.com will eventually stop being perceived as a sign of weakness.

I do not know to which extent I agree. I find it sad but likely that people may eventually stop paying attention to URLs altogether; the main counter-argument I would have would be phishing, because, no matter what, you'll still have to check that you are on the right website at some point. That said I do believe that if it may happen for the general public, it may not happen before a long time for more knowledgeable people (prospective funders, employees, partners, etc., as you mentioned).

Re:Change Your Name by ThomPete on Sunday August 09, 2015 @04:36PM (#10031490)
signaling weakness is an important factor for a fraction of companies for most others that is the very least of their worries.

PG talks from a perspective that does not apply to most companies in this world.

Again if you get a .com name that is great. But whether it's worth the effort of finding one it if you don't have it already is another discussion all together.

Re:Change Your Name by chaostheory on Sunday August 09, 2015 @04:55PM (#10031551)
> But whether it's worth the effort of finding one it if you don't have it already is another discussion all together.

Whether or not you agree with pg, finding a decent .com is pretty cheap in terms of time and money when you have free domain name checking services that give you available .com variants of desired keywords. Even though I know this, I'm still always surprised when I see the 2-3 syllable .com domain names that I wanted, being available without auction or private seller inquiries.

Re:Change Your Name by ThomPete on Sunday August 09, 2015 @07:30PM (#10031942)
Thats just not true. It's not some universal law you can apply. You have to take into considering the amount of time and what kind of name you have access to.
Re:Change Your Name by chaostheory on Monday August 10, 2015 @12:24AM (#10032639)
> You have to take into considering the amount of time and what kind of name you have access to.

I'm not sure I understand. Free name checking services do take into account what names are available to you and they give you variants of your desired keywords. Results are returned in seconds. It takes a few hours at most to go through a bunch of keywords.

Re:Change Your Name by pepon on Sunday August 09, 2015 @04:52PM (#10031543)
But changing perception is in our hands. If everybody starts not giving a F for the .com, then people will start not caring about that... If we keep fighting for the .com we are just supporting that ugly business of buying nice domain names in order to sell them for a ridiculous price to people that actually want create something.
Re:Change Your Name by intopieces on Sunday August 09, 2015 @05:31PM (#10031651)
When you're trying to get your company off the ground, fighting the good fight for the betterment of other companies is not something your can afford.
Re:Change Your Name by ozim on Sunday August 09, 2015 @04:57PM (#10031558)
I agree here with Natch, compare point about signaling weakness with sending your CV from "[email protected]" to "[email protected]" or even "[email protected]" what looks most professional? Can you imagine reading CV of a person with fancy kid mail?
Re:Change Your Name by BinaryIdiot on Monday August 10, 2015 @12:37AM (#10032678)
> Can you imagine reading CV of a person with fancy kid mail?

Yes. In fact I did quite a bit of hiring at some of my previous companies and I never cared about email (why would I care about email? This isn't a signal, this is noise). Do people, at least in tech, really care about such things? At least in my deals I never found one. I'd imagine in stuffy jobs it might be something to look down upon but in tech? That seems silly considering how progressive our industry typically is.

Re:Change Your Name by ozim on Monday August 10, 2015 @09:53AM (#10034552)
If you want to hire someone detail oriented will you look inside his CV if he has "detail oriented" listed or you just see he has typos?
Re:Change Your Name by finkin1 on Sunday August 09, 2015 @04:59PM (#10031566)
Wouldn't appearing weak by not shelling out potentially tens of thousands of dollars for a domain name be, well, accurate? I mean...these are startups, not established companies. I think showing weakness could be to the advantage of a startup, which PG seems to ignore.
Re:Change Your Name by rpedela on Sunday August 09, 2015 @05:03PM (#10031584)
How is showing weakness an advantage?
Re:Change Your Name by finkin1 on Sunday August 09, 2015 @07:21PM (#10031919)
It can signal a prioritization of values. Startups tend move fast and be flexible, and tend to have less customers so each one is more valuable. Established companies tend to move slowly and often provide worse customer service. By being honest about being a startup (or being an established company) expectations can be set between company and customer. Pretending to be established when in reality you are not seems disingenuous, and I think it's pretty easy to argue that being genuine is good/can be an advantage.
Re:Change Your Name by rpedela on Sunday August 09, 2015 @08:21PM (#10032066)
I don't really see how .com or not translates into being genuine or not.

Having been a founder for four years now, I have learned that the word "startup" usually scares potential customers. It is actually a good thing to seem more established than you are. However that doesn't mean you are disingenuous either. It is not black or white. You can look more established: .com domain, decent website, proper terms and privacy policy, no beta or "coming soon" wording on website, etc. However if someone asks directly how established you are, you are truthful.

What the potential customer wants to know is if they can trust you, and you won't be gone tomorrow. Therefore if you are truthful about the company's state, but seem like you are established then more people will look past the word "startup" since it will be obvious to them that you are serious and have some idea what you are doing.

In other words, you dont need to go around yelling at the top of your lungs that X is a startup. That strategy will most likely fail. But you certainly shouldn't deceive people either. There is a line.

Re:Change Your Name by wisty on Sunday August 09, 2015 @05:32PM (#10031653)
It can signal value, though you might end up chasing worse customers.
Re:Change Your Name by bbcbasic on Sunday August 09, 2015 @05:48PM (#10031702)
I think it can signal breaking the mold. "We are new, we are not constrained to use a .com domain, come and find cool stuff here"
Re:Change Your Name by rpedela on Sunday August 09, 2015 @05:35PM (#10031661)
How does it signal value?
Re:Change Your Name by rokhayakebe on Sunday August 09, 2015 @04:56PM (#10031554)
re:Signaling weakness.

True, but to whom. Most people don't know the difference between getDropbox.com and Dropbox.com.

Re:Change Your Name by tptacek on Sunday August 09, 2015 @05:39PM (#10031678)
Investors, is I think the implication.