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Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Wednesday April 06, 2022 @11:37AM (#30933348)
We are seeing if people are using Warp regularly.

We don’t know about any shells outside of Warp so technically, they could also using other terminals - but that’s enough info for our product development.

We never track the contents of commands. A full telemetry table is included in our user docs.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:15PM (#30926822)
Hi - Warp engineer here. Totally understand your skepticism and hesitation.

Regarding open source, we want to do it for parts and potentially all of the code. We plan to open-source our extension points as we go. You can read more about this here https://github.com/warpdotdev/Warp/discussions/400.

We have also talked internally about having penetration testing.

As for our business model, the terminal is totally free for individuals and we want to make a terminal so useful for individuals that their companies will want to pay for the team features.

The general philosophy is that we would never charge for anything a terminal currently does. So no paywalls around SSH or anything like that. The types of features we could eventually charge for are things that have a cost to us, for example enabling real-time terminal collaboration.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:05PM (#30926759)
Right now, login is required while we're in Open Beta.

When we GA, login will be opt-in (although you'd lose some of our cooler features).

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @08:01PM (#30926736)
Assuming you're on a shell that supports bracketed paste, it'll treat it as one block and execute all of the commands one after the other. The exit status will be that of the last command run.
Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:50PM (#30926656)
Warp engineer here - thanks for writing about your experience!

As cieplik mentioned, it's true that telemetry has not been mentioned as frequently as it has been on HN.

> I think it does an amazing job of making the terminal easy and friendly to infrequent users.

As for our users, it's a combination of newer and more experienced terminal users. More than half of them are self-reported advanced or expert terminal users.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:40PM (#30926570)
Warp engineer here! The shell has arbitrary access to the environment, and there's a long tail of shell config to play nice with. For example, here's a fun technical read about how we supported PS1 and how the 9c byte caused some issues (https://www.warp.dev/blog/whats-so-special-about-ps1). We've prioritized issues based on the impact for the product. If you're up for it, I'd love if you could file some issues about the problems you're experiencing.

There are a lot of great shell configs. One advantage of Warp is that the terminal & shell have these features out-of-the-box.

> A shell script will run in it's interpreter regardless of what shell you happen to use, shared commands will inherently be in the flavour of shell-script that the sharer is used to, and so i have to know how to use their shell as well as mine to translate between them, which again isn't a problem when running a script.

Workflows in Warp specify the shell in the metadata.

The idea for workflows is to allow people to search commands based on what they accomplish, rather than requiring everybody to remember the command and type. For example, if I wanted to delete all empty files in a line, instead of remembering the exact incantation of sed to accomplish this, I could search "delete empty files".

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:18PM (#30926403)
Thanks for writing your thoughts! I can understand the skepticism and ultimately this is not far from the business we want to build.

The terminal is totally free for individuals and our business model is to make the terminal so useful for individuals that their companies will want to pay for the team features.

We are also definitely open-sourcing parts and potentially all of the code.

You can read more about how we see it here: https://github.com/warpdotdev/Warp/discussions/400.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:07PM (#30926304)
Thanks for your positive feedback, Divan!
Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:05PM (#30926286)
cieplik did a great job implementing support for VoiceOver and having a few blind engineers beta test the app
Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @07:04PM (#30926271)
This is for cloud-enabled features not presently in other terminals.

Right now, we have two relevant features: 1. The ability to share a "block" of input/output to a permalink that anyone can view. 2. A.I. command search.

Later on, for an individual, it may mean being able to sync settings across devices, fast setup of your terminal on new computers, and being able to access the command line on any device via the web.

For teams, it means we can build collaborative features. This does not mean just Google Docs-style real-time collaboration, but asynchronous collaboration through sharing commands, settings, and history. It means increased knowledge-sharing through wikis and READMEs that run directly in the terminal. It means making the terminal safer and more secure via integrated password-management and audit logging. It means making the terminal a more extensible and customizable platform, with a nice modern ecosystem.

The app works offline, just the two features I mentioned won't work.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:59PM (#30926227)
Warp engineer here - Thanks for your response!

It's too early right now, but we are definitely going to open source parts and potentially all of the code.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:57PM (#30926209)
Thanks for your response. Let us know how it goes with the app!
Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:41PM (#30926044)
While this can be done in zsh/bash, it takes investment to understand how to use multiline specifically. And then once you leave the terminal, the same keystroke does not do anything for you.

One of Warp is that you don't have to think twice about it because it behaves similarly to text fields everywhere else on your computer.

In the terminal, I often have the feeling that personal computing revolution from Xerox PARC & Apple Computer never happened.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:30PM (#30925920)
The terminal is a surprisingly performance intensive application. When we built an initial prototype in electron, it was struggling to render full screens of text output on large screens. We want to support 144 fps on 4K monitors.

Additionally, Warp has GUI elements like blocks and context menus. We talk about performance because when we discuss our features, people automatically assume it's going to be sluggish.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:21PM (#30925828)
Warp engineer here - Thanks for being an early user!

While folks have mentioned here that shells have powerful line editing capabilities, I've found that a lot of people miss this. We want to allow a broader set of people to be productive in the terminal. And FWIW, a lot of developers - with varying amounts of experience - have resonated with the text input.

Personally, I'm a heavy vim user and I've never gotten particularly comfortable using the shell's line editor.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:12PM (#30925747)
First of all, we love Alacritty: our terminal model code is based on Alacritty’s model code. We’re grateful that a few of the collaborators reviewed our early design docs.

We think the two products are meant for two different audiences.

Alacritty has a very minimalist philosophy that suits some terminal power users very well. It’s geared towards folks who are familiar with more advanced tools like tmux, and who are comfortable doing advanced configuration in the shell. For instance, Alacritty has no tabs: users are expected to use tmux.

With Warp, you get similar performance to Alacritty (we are both Rust-based, GPU-accelerated native apps, and Warp leverages some of Alacritty’s model code) But you also get many more built-in features that we think make all developers more productive, like:

- Blocks (grouping commands and outputs together)

- A modern text editor for your input

- Features like Workflows and AI command search that help you perform tasks faster

- Tabs, native split panes, and menus

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:08PM (#30925704)
Hi - Warp engineer here! Fully understand your disappointment and hesitation.

The terminal is totally free for individuals. The general philosophy is that we would never charge for anything a terminal currently does. So no paywalls around SSH or anything like that.

You're totally right in that the collaborative/audit features are a good fit for being paid features. Our business model will be around charging companies for team features.

For our public beta, we do send telemetry and we do associate it with the logged in user because it makes it much easier to reach out and get feedback when something goes wrong. But we only track metadata, never console input or output. For an exhaustive list of events that we track, see here: https://docs.warp.dev/getting-started/privacy#exhaustive-tel.... If this is uncomfortable to you, please wait for Warp to enter General Availability. At that point our plan is to make telemetry opt-in and anonymous.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @06:03PM (#30925640)
Warp engineer here. Thanks for your note, glad to hear from a fellow engineer in this space! While there's a lot of great software that's free, the terminal is a tool tens of millions of developers use everyday - and there's a lot of value in this space.

How can I learn more about your project?

Btw, we are hiring! ;)

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @05:54PM (#30925553)
Appreciate you writing in!

> I would easily pay $20-50 for a souped-up terminal (I spend all day in it), even a closed-source one, but the "we raised tons of money to build a free terminal and haven't figured out how to monetize it yet", again, understandable, but not the best look, given the mandatory data collection. Hey, dev's gotta eat, but I'd rather pay for OSS and transparency, rather than free-but-you-are-the-product, and I hope they go for the former route.

The terminal is totally free for individuals. Our business model is to make the terminal so useful for individuals that their companies will want to pay for the team features.

The general philosophy is that we would never charge for anything a terminal currently does. So no paywalls around SSH or anything like that. The types of features we could eventually charge for are things that have a cost to us, for example enabling real-time terminal collaboration. Even those will likely be free up to some level of usage and only charged in a company context.

We will never sell your data.

> Also the privacy policy doesn't seem to be linked from the app. I can get to it, but would be nice to just go there right from the about page.

The privacy policy is linked from the login screen and it's also one of the first items in our user docs.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @04:31PM (#30924606)
Totally understand if you don't feel comfortable using it!

The reason we don't submit this only during a crash, is because there are a lot of other things we want to know about users like: Which features are they using? Are they sticking to warp as their daily driver? How much time do they spend in the app?

We do want to make the telemetry opt-in after Warp is out of beta.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @04:25PM (#30924544)
In addition to crashes, we also want to know things like: which features people are using so we can invest more in them, how much people are using the app so we know if we're doing in a good job.

Totally understand if you're not comfortable with that though! It will be removed when Warp is out of the beta test.

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @04:00PM (#30924204)
We started with Electron/Typescript and pivoted to Rust when it was clear that the performance was unfeasible for certain workloads (e.g. scrolling on 4k monitors).

If we already had a C++ terminal, I don't know that we would've rewritten in Rust. Starting from scratch, we were able to build an app and ship features in a good cadence.

We mention Rust in our marketing, because when talking about our features like blocks, code editor, visual menus, people automatically think "slow".

Re:Show HN: Warp, a Rust-based terminal on Tuesday April 05, 2022 @02:26PM (#30922890)
Hi, Warp engineer here! Nothing against electron. We write this in the headline because people who see features like blocks or input editor automatically think "slow". So it's a succinct way to communicate that we have a snappy app.

For benchmarks, we have some preliminary info in this tech blog https://www.warp.dev/blog/how-warp-works.

Re:Warp: Fast, Rust-based terminal (waiting list) on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @02:10PM (#27836281)
> terminal that requires an e-mail login

Email is required only for the closed beta. Warp will be offline-first. All details here: https://www.warp.dev/privacy.

Re:Warp: Fast, Rust-based terminal (waiting list) on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @01:57PM (#27836079)
Our strategy here is to share sessions to the web, so collaborators don't need to download the app. It's fascinating how far utilities like screen will get you in functionality, but I agree it's really hard to get people on there.
Re:Warp: Fast, Rust-based terminal (waiting list) on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @01:51PM (#27835995)
The data pertains only to opt-in cloud features. Warp is local-first. Note that the closed beta collects some info, so if you're not comfortable with that, please wait until our open launch.

All details here: https://www.warp.dev/privacy

Re:Warp: Fast, Rust-based terminal (waiting list) on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @01:36PM (#27835787)
Alacritty is a different approach: they're building a traditional terminal. Warp is hoping to push the boundaries and build something different.

Warp is a fork of Alacritty, their team was very gracious in collaborating and reviewing Warp's initial designs.