tamarind8

I think you need to consider the difference between a browser, and the web dev tools that come with a browser. Let me put it differently, lets assume chrome has 10 billion users. Out of all those, how many do you think actually even know the dev tools exist? 10 billion? 1 billion? 100 million? No. More like 1 million.

Please take some time to consider what I'm saying to you.

> This is my best guess, based on my own experience of being a manager.

So, as a manager. How would you feel if someone interviewed you, and hired you based on your years of experience as a manager, then suddenly started acting like you have no experience at all? How would you handle that?

Thank you my friend, those are wise words. And I have quietly moved on from such behavior in the past, only to find it again years later. I feel I have to make a statement this time around. Treating people this way is unacceptable, and illegal. I will have to prove the illegal part, but I'm ready to pay the price.

> Why is fair relevant? Fair is for board games with your family.

Why are you even responding to my questions, if you have no intent to help? I asked a question. I did not ask whether I should, or have the right to ask the questions. The answers you are giving, are irrelevant. Next time, please understand the question, before giving a so called answer.

> Thing is, we only have half the story.

Yes. And what is wrong with that? If this was a court of law, then not only would you have to hear both sides, you would also have to determine which side is true. When I asked for advice, part of that request was to put yourself in my shoes, then give me some advice. Not to decide who is legally and ultimately right or wrong. That is not what I asked. I told my story, FROM MY POINT OF VIEW, AND ASKED FOR ADVICE. If I want advice from all points of view, I will, and have decided to consult a lawyer. It does not mean I do not value your advice, but please, never give someone advice by questioning WHY they are asking for advice. If you have to do that, then your advice is useless, as far as am concerned. Let's not waste each others time.

No. No one asked me that. In fact, they are pretty easy going in terms of what tools a developer chooses.

Which is why its so crushing that he said "we have to let you go, because I do not believe you will handle the tooling we choose six months down the line"

I mean.... are this future toolings going to be brought down from aliens???

I agree with you. I have never lied, but saying the truth here will make it really hard to find my next gig, even though I did nothing wrong.

> It's also not because they changed their mind about the React rewrite. It's far more likely they thought you were going to be a bad culture fit.

So, that is a valid argument. But looking at my termination letter, it says "did not met the performance expectations and standards".

This is after I know, that the only ticket they gave me, which I insisted on being given, did not only meet the requirements, but exceeded them. They wanted me to fix the CSS of the login page, I fixed the CSS of ALL pages. Could you be wrong, or do you need more context?

> Anyway, you wouldn't be the first opinionated junior developer that gets a reality check this way.

hahajahha!!! This guy just called me a junior dev. I guess that is possible. To work 17 years in the same profession, being payed, mostly as a temp contractor, having to prove your chops over and over again every year or so, but still somehow never learning anything. Thanks bro. From today on, I'll consider myself a junior web dev. You showed me the truth with your wise words.

> but your failure is actually convincing others of those amazing abilities and skills you have.

In three weeks, I got one ticket. T had to insist on being given a ticket. Ticket said fix the CSS for the login page, I fixed the CSS for ALL pages. Did you get that? All pages. You are starting to sound like my boss, asking me over and over again if the CSS was fixed even after the scrum board said so, the git history said so, I said so in daily stand-ups, and I DMed him so in slack. Wow! I guess am a failure then. Maybe I should have jumped on top of my table and repeatedly screamed "I did it! I did it! I did it!". Is that how you think I should have "convinced others of those amazing abilities". Honest question. Please let me know what else I should have done.

> They told you you don't know how to use your tools. In other words that you were not being professional.

Firefox, or even Chrome for that matter, is not a web dev tool. It is a browser. You use it to browse. Whatever you choose to browse, is your choice. Can you show me one, even just one job ad, from anywhere in this world that says "must professionally only use chrome as their web browser"?

> The fact that you are on HN complaining about this, tells me a lot. It's a bit immature behavior and you are burning a few bridges like that. That combined with a few things that maybe didn't go that well in your work in the first weeks would be a gigantic red flag for a manager.

Honestly, I don't care about your opinion. The fact that you are complaining about me complaining tells me a lot about you. Very immature, combined with some other petty arguments you have raised.

The prayer bit is you!!! :)

And is that a front end dev? So please tell me exactly, HOW you want your senior front end devs to solve the problems you assign to them.

> Also, are you posting here because you're frustrated and want to rant?

It is OK. I asked a question, and you gave your advice. And I am definitely not posting here because "you're frustrated and want to rant". I am posting here because I'm sure others have unfortunately found themselves in similar situations, and I'm looking for their input. Have you found yourself in a similar situation, either as the developer or manager? If the answer is no, then what is the point of you replying to me in this thread? If yes, then please, share.

> That's OK, I do it too, but it's pointless me trying to offer advice if that's the case.

And I'd email you, but you have already stated that you feel I have no case, so what's the point?

> Honestly: are you a bit argumentative?

Not at all. I pick my battles. Some things are worth fighting for, others can be ignored. Not all conflict is bad. Every manager reading this should google "form norm storm perform"

Any senior dev worth their salt should have, and be allowed to have a "storm". We all have our experience, and the paths we followed to get that experience. If a companty thinks your experience and path is useless to them, why would they hire you in the first place?

Actually, I think I was a bit too accommodating.

I let a fellow dev fully set up my dev box twice. The second time I did tell him lets do this later, I really want to work on that first ticket but he just kept on typing, ignoring me. I shoudld have grabbed the keyboard from him the moment I realized he was deleting my current ubuntu WSL setup. Guess I just kept silent in the spirit of "being receptive to what my coworkers suggest". Little did I know that my boss would decide that this means i don't know anything.

> The one month gap in your resume nobody cares about. Seriously, don't be so insecure! How do I know this - I just had a massive 8 months gap in mine, and still managed to land a contract

Thanks mate. I'm happy for you.

> In fact, you should have done it before they fired you. The signs were clearly on the wall.

Honestly... not really. One day its "take all the time you need", the next it's "why are you using Firefox? That is a red flag on you, and please leave right now".

I most definitely use the browser dev tools extensively. The debugger is just one of those tools, and it simply does not apply when it comes to CSS. The debugger is for JS bugs.

Have I named anyone here? Have I shamed anyone here?

All I have said, is I'm going to look into my rights as an employee, and question whether I was treated fairly. Why do you have a problem with that?

To be honest, I believe me and the manager were a really good fit. If the choice was to move away from angular. As a developer, I believe we have the same values. He just felt I would be "too stressed with whats coming down the line" whatever that means.

If you hire someone because you think you are going for A, then change your mind about "what's coming down the line" and decide to stick with B, what is the proper way of letting them go?

I had already relaxed between jobs before getting this one... ;)

So it is more like a 3 month gap.

I agree. This company provided a windows box, but did not provide any set any proper guidelines or specifications on how it should look. All the knowledge about that was locked into different developers heads.

I was trying to fix that, by documenting everything in the wiki but I guess I use Firefox, so red flag, I've got to go.

I think you are missing the point. That one month gap in my resume? Very hard to explain. "So, they let you go why...."

It is absolutely unfair, for someone to hire and fire you "for any reason". We are not slaves.

Do your due diligence when hiring, and when firing. Is that too much to ask?

> The sad truth is that you need to be able to read situations like

If my manager wanted me, as a senior dev to only use chrome for a browser, and use a its debugger for solving all my tickets, he should have made this clear during the recruitment process.

"Senior Front-End Dev required, must only work with the Chrome Web Browser, and full blown IDES"

We would have saved one another a lot of time...

Yes, I think I was... good catch :)

So they'd recently changed their policy from 2 days to 3 days work from office. Meaning the majority of dev time, would be spent at the office. I simply told my manager that since we'd be spending more time in the office, could they give us the equipment we need? One of the devs wanted an extra monitor, some other two devs were sharing a laptop charger, I'd been waiting 3 weeks for my second monitor and laptop charger....

I want to be productive. My home office is 100% set up for my productivity. So I need to spend more time in the office? Ok. But please supply all the equipment I need to work effectively. If you consider how much devs get paid, hardware is cheap! You are wasting money by not giving them the tools to do their job!

I was not that blunt, but kind of hinted that, after spending my first 3 weeks waiting for a monitor, usb port and laptop charger.

Thank you, my friend. A year from now I'll be happy I dodged a bullet, and I still have to do something about this injustice I'm feeling now.

You get it. I will not be surprised at all if the move to React never happened, and everything is still on angular8 one year from now. So why hire me in the fast place? Because they think they can just hire and then fire someone on a whim? If I don't do something about this, they will do it to someone else.

Thanks. I was actually still being asked if the CSS had been done this morning before the firing. Despite the fact that it had actually been moved as done on the board, me saying I'd finished with it in a slack DM with him yesterday, and me saying it was done in yesterdays sprint meeting. I guess when someone-one has already made up their mind, any kind of input gets automatically, and subconsciously deleted from their minds.

I actually had to insist on being given that ticket. My boss was actually happy to let me spend more time learning angular and setting up my dev env. Think about that.

What I'd do differently if I wanted to work there? Keep my mouth shut, and not say anything about my views and concerns. Just wait to be given orders and follow them, never questioning anything.

What I did say was that I rarely use browser debuggers, because I've just never felt the need to. The console.log and a good mental image of what the code is doing has got me this far.

I asked my boss, that as a senior dev with over 15 proven experience, he should not stress to much about HOW I do it, just WHAT I deliver, and WHEN it is delivered. I guess that was asking for to much? Or being insubordinate? Anyways, I was told my skills, abilities or personality was not the problem, am just not "a good fit". Why? Because I like firefox, and using text editors (vs code) over IDES (visual studio).

The time gaps between jobs?

All they said in writing was "unfortunately I do not meet performance standards".

For the first two weeks they were happy to let me just learn angular and the app. They gave me a CSS ticket to fix one page last week, and I actually fixed all the pages! But I did it using Firefox and a text editor (vs code) so they are having none of that!

> get yourself a lawyer Very seriously considering this.

Thank you. There was no warning. In-fact, every dev is free to setup their own local environment in whichever way the choose. There is no standard way to setup anything, and one of my goals was to setup my env and document everything step by step on the org's wiki. So that atleast we'd have one official, approved way of doing things.

What is most shocking about it all, is they have an Angular app, which they are thinking of moving to React, which is why they hired me. On the basis of my React and JS skills. They trusted me to get up-to speed on Angular, but dismissed me because I use Firefox? Don't want the job back, I'm just feeling that people should not feel free to d*ck others around like this. How will I explain all this on my resume?