quinequine

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

Developers like most people are motivated by self-interest and have little motivation to see change in the status quo.

With regards to advocacy, it's much easier to cut a check to the EFF (or similar organizations) when your conscience is moved.

We as developers could careless about actually seeing meaningful results outside of the code we write and money we make.

That's what you're saying more or less?

I strongly disagree with your statement that collective bargaining isn't beneficial because at no point are the efforts of individuals more effective than that of a group. Only together is there change. The people's movements of the world have demonstrated that time and time again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's_History_of_the_Unit...

Good point but you misunderstood my argument. It's in the interests of corporations to push up supply and if you look they are doing just that.

My concern is that without a counterbalance of developers advocating in the interest of the workforce; individuals will always be at a disadvantage.

Why? In a business everything comes second to profits and the accumulation of capital. Anyone who has worked at a startup outside of the US coasts knows this well.

I'm not saying we employ the old methods of unionization, but what am I saying is that we need collective bargaining.

It's up to us to identify a modern model that addresses your concerns.

I completely understand. How do you feel about collective bargaining in general?

Consider a case where let's say the founder of an extremely successful yet 50 person software company sells the company for an ungodly sum ($250mil+) to Corporation X but as a part of that deal this founder doesn't provide any equity to 80% of his/her employees who helped build the company?

What should they do then?

Ehh, there's a reason I started the thread off with "not your Dad or Grandma's union". :)

Why can't there be another way than the way our grandparents' unionized?

You're right. Most developers could care less about anything that doesn't impact their daily working life.

But I would argue that issues like wage suppression, security, and privacy have a huge impact on our work-life balance, income and the software we write.

An organization of developers dedicated to collective bargaining would be able to support advocacy groups and give them teeth in their dealings with large multinational corporations and even governments.

Would you agree?

You're right. Most developers don't care about these sort of issues. No need to unionize if you don't care about effecting change. And when you do, just send a donation and call it a day.

Depends on where you're at, right? You'll find tons of developers on Upwork willing to work for less.

Isn't that the future for most of us? We're tomorrow's factory workers. Corporations have already shown that they'll work to suppress wages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

The long game is to promote STEM fields and increase supply - pushing down wages and benefits.