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Re:Using Algorithms to Determine Character by CPLX on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @03:15PM (#9970917)
There are multiple problems with these kinds of things, but two of the most serious -- perhaps fatal -- issues with this sort of methodology come when you start questioning the assumptions implicit in these algorithms:

One of the problems comes from the kind of virtual redlining you can get via closely correlated metrics that serve as a proxy for problematic criteria. For example, someone's preferences in music or entertainment or food purchasing could closely correlate to their ethnicity, which in turn could correlate to lowered access to capital due to historic racial discrimination. You may be telling yourself you're writing an impartial algorithm, but it's not impartial, it's just opaque. How do we know that the "prepaid cellular" metric isn't just a proxy for "black people" or "recent immigrants" for example?

Likewise, you have the other problem, which is trusting the data in the first place. We have some stringent laws in this country about the ability for a consumer to see and correct data that leads to negative lending decisions being made about them. Perhaps its interesting that "giving up a prepaid wireless number" is a really bad data point when deciding to lend me money. But what if I never actually had a prepaid phone at all, and some database somewhere that I can't see says that I did? That's not only a problem it's actually illegal.

The article makes a show of taking a critical eye towards this method of evaluating creditworthiness, but somehow doesn't raise two of the really serious Achilles heels that are baked into all such schemes and have been problematic for awhile.

Re:Using Algorithms to Determine Character by raceyT on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @03:34PM (#9971048)
Are you saying that if one uses a criterion that incidentally correlates with race that is racism? And wouldn't a correction for this itself cause a much more disturbing racist exercise ie; profiling every possible data point against race and forever maintaining such profiles?
Re:Using Algorithms to Determine Character by CPLX on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @03:40PM (#9971092)
If a bank made a decision not to lend to people that subscribed to Spanish language HBO, would you consider that to be legal? Ethical?

How about if they wrote software with a single criteria for loans, and that criteria was "don't lend to black people"?

Right, we know that's not OK intuitively. What about an algorithm that automatically declines all applications from people who went to historically black colleges?

So then, where exactly do you draw the line? If said algorithm is opaque does that make it OK? What if it wasn't intentional, but the algorithm just kind of turned out that way by machine learning? Is that better somehow? And how can we tell, and how can we hold the bank accountable for those decisions?

One answer to "where do we draw the line" is to say that we only make credit decisions based on history and experience with actual credit. Things like payment histories and so on, and that the both the criteria and the data used to make those decisions must be transparent, and consumers have the right to challenge it.

This, in fact, is the system we currently have. There are reasons for that.

Re:Using Algorithms to Determine Character by raceyT on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @04:08PM (#9971237)
I would consider it not only reprehensible but absurd, as these examples are.

I can't think of any advantages a racist bank would have, can you? The approach by this lender is rather to dig deeper into individuals and give them an opportunity based on personal data. It seems just as likely that resulting correlations could help any given race.

I believe algorithmic attempts to understand people are a form of intelligence to support, even if they discover things we might not like or make mistakes along the way. Should they find uncomfortable truths we can own up, have a laugh and grow; it will be a lot easier than fighting facts.

Prejudice is literally pre-judging, making assertions based on fear without knowing the facts. Perhaps it's the algorithms themselves that are in need of protection here.

Re:Using Algorithms to Determine Character by flashman on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @09:42PM (#9972788)
> I can't think of any advantages a racist bank would have, can you?

Banks can, which is why redlining was a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

Re:Using Algorithms to Determine Character by kenzokai on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @03:40PM (#9971095)
Fatal? How could either of those problems lead to death?
Re:Using Algorithms to Determine Character by qntty on Wednesday July 29, 2015 @04:00PM (#9971195)
Fatal to this project, not a person