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Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by InclinedPlane on Monday July 27, 2015 @04:21PM (#9957751)
To be fair, exploding a few kiloton nuke at several km altitude (probably 30,000 ft or so) would have fairly minimal impact on the ground, and would, of course, bet totally worthwhile if it meant preventing dropping multi-megaton bombs.
Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by briandear on Tuesday July 28, 2015 @05:23AM (#9960379)
Also airburst weapons result in minimal local fallout. There is the long term global fallout, but that risk wouldn't be catastrophic from a 30kt weapon. So the "local" blast would be the only operational damage. Granted it would be an insane amount of damage, but minimal long term dangers. I was an NBC officer in the Army and we conducted all sorts of scenarios dealing with tactical nukes (specifically maximum cross time calculation and blast diameters and cones of contaimination; I am so glad that much of that is academic at this point however there certainly is a danger from nuclear arms in the hands of nefarious actors. The asymmetric battlefield is so much harder to defend against than the old Societ threat.
Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by woofuls on Monday July 27, 2015 @06:23PM (#9958396)
Wouldn't a low yield nuclear weapon detonated at a relatively low altitude generate a localized EMP?
Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by dragonwriter on Monday July 27, 2015 @06:31PM (#9958432)
> Wouldn't a low yield nuclear weapon detonated at a relatively low altitude generate a localized EMP?

Probably, though Soviet strategic bomber formations probably wouldn't be operating at particularly low altitude and, IIRC, the idea was to intercept before they were over target (but not far enough away that it wouldn't be problematic!) anyway, and, finally, localized EMP and flash from a kiloton-range airburst is better for people on the ground than the effects of a megaton-range ground burst.

If the Nike missiles around SF had ever been fired in anger, it would have been an effort to turn what would otherwise be total disaster into merely major disaster.

Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by bigiain on Monday July 27, 2015 @08:21PM (#9958854)
One of the interesting things about the Marin Headland Nike station tour is the tidbit of information that they had targeting codes for Sacramento. So if the Ruskies invaded and occupied the state capital there was an "option"...

(May well have been a bored volunteer making things up, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand...)

Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by mikeash on Monday July 27, 2015 @11:46PM (#9959403)
EMP from nuclear detonations is more of a high altitude thing. The gamma rays knock electrons off atoms in the atmosphere, which move really fast because the gamma rays are energetic. Up where the atmosphere is thin, those electrons can move a substantial distance before the collide with another atom. As they move, the Earth's magnetic field causes their path to curve, which causes them to emit electromagnetic radiation. At lower altitudes (which a bomber interception would be, relatively speaking) the electrons don't get far enough before they collide with stuff.
Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by InclinedPlane on Monday July 27, 2015 @06:41PM (#9958483)
Likely. Although there's been remarkably little public research on EMPs. It's hard to say what impact that would actually have. Even if it fried every electronic device, that'd still be much better than a 10 megaton nuke going off above downtown.
Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by woofuls on Monday July 27, 2015 @08:16PM (#9958839)
>>Even if it fried every electronic device, that'd still be much better than a 10 megaton nuke going off above downtown.

My worry is what happens to critical infrastructure. For instance, if the blast were in line-of-sight of multiple high-voltage transmission lines then extra-high-voltage transformers (think >200 kV) could “melt-down” (that is to say, the cellulose insulation is damaged by higher than normal temperature of the oil caused by the excess DC current, but maybe I am wrong?). These are multi-million dollars, weigh 500 000 lbs, are very difficult to move, and have a lead time measured in years. (There are probably 10 of these on hand as spares across the country for the 4,000 currently in use.) Cascading power failure, say substantial failure in San Francisco, could affect the entire Western Interconnection. If the power goes down, so does water pressure which depends on electrical pumps. A loss of power/water for more than a week could be an extremely severe event. A military strategist wouldn't settle for just one city to be in this state either.

So if you have an attack on multiple fronts, then today it would be suicidal to potentially knock out the power to your own cities. But, maybe back when the Nike was in use power failure wouldn't be as catastrophic as it would be today OR this wasn't a possible failure mode.

Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by maaku on Tuesday July 28, 2015 @04:56AM (#9960298)
Um, a multi megaton nuke of the city center would have the same effect or worse.
Re:Nike Missile Sites of the San Francisco Bay Area by woofuls on Tuesday July 28, 2015 @01:44PM (#9963250)
You assume the bombers were definitely carrying nuclear weapons. They needn't if your goal is to have the enemy wipe itself out by this method, they only need to think you are carrying them.

Also, I argue that your line-of-sight is increased by "low-altitude" EMP blasts (30 000 ft for a localized EMP on a bomber vs >100 000 ft for high-altitude EMP) whereas a nuclear detonation probably occurs at much lower altitude (~2 000 ft), so the higher altitude could in theory attack a much larger area as far as power is concerned. So in terms of electrical infrastructure, a larger area of damage could occur by Nike attacks on bombers higher up. But who knows.