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Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by spec on Friday December 11, 2009 @07:04AM (#989553)
This confirms that they had no contracts - Arrington's "exhibits" are some blog posts and emails. This guy seriously used to be a lawyer? The initial price point was just an attempt to hype it up by Arrington, so this whole device would never be much anyway. BTW, Techcrunch is deleting any unfavorable comments on their blog, just as they have done many other times previously.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by vidarh on Friday December 11, 2009 @08:25AM (#989621)
The exhibits to the filing only needs to contain enough to establish cause for the complaints made.

There's no reason to attach everything you've got to an initial complaint, and a lot of good reason to wait until you see how the other side responds. If they want to settle, for example, the less you've had to disclose in public, the easier it might be.

So while they very well may not have had a contract, this confirms no such thing.

(Disclosure: I know Mike)

Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by cperciva on Friday December 11, 2009 @07:51AM (#989593)
This guy seriously used to be a lawyer?

Jack Thompson used to be a lawyer, too. Having the training guarantees neither intellect nor sanity.

Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by elblanco on Friday December 11, 2009 @08:38AM (#989637)
Let's not forget Orly Taitz either.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by lionhearted on Friday December 11, 2009 @08:50AM (#989659)
> This confirms that they had no contracts

This is a misconception - a contract does not need to be written to be enforceable. A contract consists of an "offer" and "acceptance"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract#Offer_and_acceptance

Techcrunch looks like it made an offer to work with someone to build a device, and Fusion looks like it accepted in some capacity by announcing they were working with them, tentatively branding it the Crunchpad, etc.

After that, the question is - did Techcrunch provide "consideration" to Fusion? That is, did they work to fulfill the agreement the two companies had?

Here, it looks pretty clear that TC did provide some consideration. Courts will look at what was agreed, and whether the parties provided that. Techcrunch might be exaggerating their role in the project, but they did clearly bring some consideration to the table - they put time, effort, money into the project because they believed they had a deal. Fusion accepted this consideration.

Importantly, consideration doesn't look at abstract value. It looks at whether you delivered on the contract. This is important, here's Wik on the subject:

"Consideration must be "sufficient" (i.e., recognizable by the law), but need not be "adequate" (i.e., the consideration need not be a fair and reasonable exchange for the benefit of the promise). For instance, agreeing to buy a car for a penny may constitute a binding contract."

The car for a penny example is extreme, and it might not be a binding contract, but it might too - there's been some famous cases of pranksters getting sued. But the key is, even if what TC provided wasn't important, if Fusion agreed to partner/pay royalties/give them a percent/something in exchange for what TC brought to the table, then they had a deal and TC delivered on their end of it.

Also from Wik -

"Contrary to common wisdom, an exchange of promises can still be binding and legally as valid as a written contract."

A clear, well written contract goes a long way. In absence of one, though, if you can still show there was an offer, acceptance, and consideration, then you've got a contract. I'm still going through the lawsuit reading, I'll come back when I see what TC is asking for because that's an interesting detail.

Edit: On page 10 of the lawsuit. TC is saying they paid vendors and paid Fusion's debts. That'd be pretty clear consideration if true. Still reading.

Edit2: Alright, page 21 has what TC is asking for. They're asking for all profits from sale of the product to be put into a trust and that Fusion is permanently forbidden from selling or distributing the Joojoo product, and must destroy it. Earlier in the suit they mentioned TC and Fusion are now permanently competitors, which implied TC is going to build their own pad. It'll be interesting to see if they have their own set of IP and specs to do that, or if it's just bluffing for leverage.

Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by hristov on Friday December 11, 2009 @07:05PM (#990839)
Yes oral contracts can be enforceable, but (i) there are limits to the types of oral contracts that are enforceable (see statute of frauds) and (ii) even for an oral contract the parties have to show that both sides clearly intended to be bound by a contract (there are some exceptions to this, but they do not apply here).

From what I read it seems that neither party treated the relationship as if they are bound by a contract. On the contrary it seemed like they proceeded under the assumption that they will negotiate some type of a deal in the future, but currently did not want to bind themselves.

None of this is legal advice, etc.

Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by nreece on Friday December 11, 2009 @09:03AM (#989675)
In a strictly lawful perspective, a contract is a legally binding written agreement between two or more parties.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by ugh on Friday December 11, 2009 @09:24AM (#989705)
Always? I don't know anything about US law, but German law doesn't require contracts to be written by default. If you buy something the contract between you and the shop owner doesn't have to be written down. You don't even have to say anything, just show what you want to buy and hand over the money. Unpolite but legal. There are requirements for certain kinds of contracts, but not for all of them.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by lionhearted on Friday December 11, 2009 @09:20AM (#989699)
It might depend on your country/jurisdiction. In the United States, oral and implied contracts are contracts, and are legal and binding.

Some contracts, though, fall under what's called the "statute of frauds" - that means they must be written to become contracts.

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/business/statute_of_frauds....

> A "statute of frauds" requires that certain contracts be in writing, and that they be signed by all parties to be bound by the contract.

Contracts under statute of frauds include land sales and transfers, guaranteeing another person's debts, and contracts that can't be completed in a year.

It can be hard to prove an oral contract, but if you can prove it has all the elements of a contract, it's a contract, legal, and enforceable at least under the standard United States common law.

Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by smeatish on Friday December 11, 2009 @02:39PM (#990294)
Some contracts, though, fall under what's called the "statute of frauds" - that means they must be written to become contracts. From the link you provide, it explains that the statue of frauds makes a contract voidable (either party can break it) but it's still a contract. Also: 'Sometimes, a party to a contract that would otherwise be invalid under a "statute of frauds" will nonetheless be able to enforce it, on the basis of "partial performance" or "promissory estoppel".' Seems TechCrunch can reasonably claim partial performance.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by forensic on Friday December 11, 2009 @12:03PM (#990001)
Not true in any country. All countries recognize oral agreements as legally binding contracts.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by kulkarnic on Friday December 11, 2009 @11:05AM (#989887)
Not true in India either (and from what I know) in a lot of countries based on the English Common Law.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by pavs on Friday December 11, 2009 @07:53AM (#989597)
This event probably explains why he is not a lawyer anymore.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by DannoHung on Friday December 11, 2009 @08:24AM (#989620)
Can we let this be the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of NEVER POSTING TechCrunch articles?
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by heyitsnick on Friday December 11, 2009 @08:34AM (#989634)
I'm glad it was posted. It allows me to keep up with news (and this crunchpad mess is certainly newsworthy) without having to ever visit techcrunch, and read informed, unbiasedopinion here rather than the moderated thread on TC.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by seiji on Friday December 11, 2009 @12:56PM (#990103)
That won't happen. I imagine TC posts have hard-coded protection against being dead'ed too.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by tptacek on Friday December 11, 2009 @01:39PM (#990179)
TC articles have been killed before.
Re:CrunchPad Federal Lawsuit Filed; Some Additional Thoughts by blasdel on Friday December 11, 2009 @02:55PM (#990325)
Automatically by a pileon of user flagging or by manual moderator action?