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Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by late2part on Sunday July 12, 2015 @01:39PM (#9874214)
Here's some advice: The word "fair" stopped making sense in kindergarten. You don't get what's fair or what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

Now, having said that, you have to determine your goals and how to synthesize an ideal set of negotiating levels.

Typically these levels are:

  1.  Possible Best Case
  2.  Likely negotiated agreement
  3.  Worse you'll take (walk away below)
  4.  BATNA - Your "Best Alternative to Negotiated Agreement."
There are several methods used for calculating acqui-hire or acquisition:

  1.  Comparables on metrics such as revenue, profit, market share, impressions, downloads, average daily/monthly users
  2.  The company's (buyer)'s budget - "Well all we have is this"
  3.  The sellers demands (I won't sell for less than this)
If I were looking at buying you, I'd consider it fair if I Can "buy" you for less than you'll make me, including opportunity costs.

You're going to have give out more (anonymous) details before most people can help you too much:

  1.  Are you a 1-man shop?  Including contractors?
  2.  How many people at acquirer?
  3.  How long have to both been in business?
  4.  How much revenue do you both have?  How much profit?
  5.  What guarantees do you want if you're hired?  What agreements are you willing to make (i.e. non-compete)
If you're a one man shop with an app that's generated $30k this year, I'd buy you for $60k and pay you $140k with a non-compete for 2 years. I don't know if you thin that's fair, but it would be to me.

Remember, a negotiation is a game in which both people agree things are fair, or both people agree that they get screwed equally.

After the negotiation, if you have to work with the person, then try to focus on the former case.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by vonklaus on Sunday July 12, 2015 @02:44PM (#9874429)
This seems like a good answer. I would add that you should be somewhat tactful until you have a suggestion of terms. The "give us a number" doesn't seem serious and it would be wise not to release financials, code and strategy until things become serious and it is evident they are negotiating in good faith.

edit: I had a total brain malfunction as pointed out below. Do not be candid, use skepticism and protect your private information.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by carbocation on Sunday July 12, 2015 @03:19PM (#9874561)
> somewhat candid until you have a suggestion of term

"Candid" here might be a typo or might not be the word you're looking for. "Cautious" seems to be more fitting for what you're saying in the rest of the sentence.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by etsll on Sunday July 12, 2015 @02:54PM (#9874472)
Thank you for that feedback. "Walk Away Before" and BATNA seem easiest to figure out, so maybe I'll start by determining that.

My company is just me. They have 4 founders and will be hiring 5-10 people soon.

Both companies had successful crowdfunding campaigns but neither is shipping a product yet.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by Udo on Sunday July 12, 2015 @03:15PM (#9874549)
> Both companies had successful crowdfunding campaigns but neither is shipping a product yet.

That sounds like you might have to refund some or all of your contributors. After the acquisition, your project will cease to exist. It's unlikely that both crowdfunding promises were exactly the same. Even if the intention is to fold your product into theirs, the realistic outcome is that your employers will ship the product as they intended, leaving your supporters with little to nothing. You need to clean this up now, rather than later.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by etsll on Sunday July 12, 2015 @03:34PM (#9874603)
We've discussed that at length and are committed to meeting our crowdfunding obligations to the full satisfaction of our backers.
Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by perlgeek on Sunday July 12, 2015 @03:24PM (#9874575)
> but neither is shipping a product yet.

I wouldn't call it "bootstrapped", then.

For me, a company is bootstrapped if it makes enough money from its products to sustain itself and its founders/employees.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by greglindahl on Sunday July 12, 2015 @03:45PM (#9874661)
I've never run into anyone who's defined it the way you do; everyone I've heard define it does it in terms of not yet having taken a cash investment from a non-founder.

"We've bootstrapped the company so far, but we don't think we will ship a MVP without taking at least a seed round" wouldn't draw any protests of misuse, in my experience.

You are correct that most bootstrapped companies that have launched end up supporting themselves; that's survivor bias in action.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by jwatte on Sunday July 12, 2015 @06:17PM (#9875234)
I'm more used to three previous definition. I would say those companies have tried to bootstrap, but bit successfully achieved it. Of you are a successfully bootstrapped business, you achieved goals without taking outside investment money.
Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by kenferry on Sunday July 12, 2015 @09:16PM (#9875825)
I'll just add: to estmiate stuff like BATNA, try breaking the problem down and summing up. It's the same as in programming. How do you solve big problems? By breaking them down into littler and littler problems.

Then when you go back to talk to these folks, give them the rationale and the small numbers rather than (just) the big number. If they have issues with your methodology you can likely work it out.

This is largely covered by the book, "Getting to Yes". Short and helpful.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by cpncrunch on Sunday July 12, 2015 @03:02PM (#9874493)
That seems a bit low, for a well-funded company. $1 million per employee is more like the going rate. See for example:

http://www.quora.com/What-is-a-typical-deal-structure-of-an-...

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by AznHisoka on Sunday July 12, 2015 @09:22PM (#9875848)
You assume those deals scale down. Just because a company will pay $50 million for 50 engineers doesn't mean it's going to pay $1 million for 1 engineer. 50 engineers is magnitudes more valuable than 1 engineer.
Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by cpncrunch on Sunday July 12, 2015 @09:50PM (#9875933)
Generally most startups have one or two "star" employees, who actually created the startup. I would say that the single engineer in a one-man startup is worth a lot more than the average engineer in a 50-engineer startup.

Instagram had 13 employees and was acquired for $1BN. Ptch had 3 employees and was purchased for $6.5M. In those cases the technology and product took up most of that value. If the acquirer is actually going to use your technology, that will obviously be a large factor in determining the sale price.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by charlesdm on Sunday July 12, 2015 @05:10PM (#9874981)
These numbers are totally irrelevant to this situation. We're talking two small companies here.

If there's no leverage, the chances of negotiating a better deal than described above are relatively slim.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by ojbyrne on Sunday July 12, 2015 @05:49PM (#9875121)
He says it's "bootstrapped."
Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by cpncrunch on Sunday July 12, 2015 @07:24PM (#9875424)
That won't make the difference between $60k and $1M. The main difference is that investors will be reluctant to lose money, so they'll push to at least get their principal back.
Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by saganus on Monday July 13, 2015 @12:16PM (#9879045)
The word "fair" stopped making sense in kindergarten. You don't get what's fair or what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

This is very interesting. I hope you don't mind me quoting you.

Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by ChuckMcM on Sunday July 12, 2015 @06:12PM (#9875208)
I really like this comment. There is no "right" answer, and there is no "fair", negotiate to terms you can live with.
Re:Ask HN: Early startup valuation for acquihire? by sidarok on Monday July 13, 2015 @04:53PM (#9881004)
"a negotiation is a game in which both people agree things are fair, or both people agree that they get screwed equally"

Well said.