Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter

Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by slg on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @05:04PM (#9815145)

I think you are letting the citizenry off the hook for their part in this. The only reason corporations gained this power is because they have more collective money (or at least are more willing to use that money) to lobby. The only reason lobbying works is because politicians need money to get elected. The only reason politicians need money to get elected is because people are so susceptible to political marketing. Coporate personhood is therefore just a symptom of a larger problem, a disinterested and easily manipulated electorate.

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by jessaustin on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @05:25PM (#9815289)

I, for one, am glad to learn that we can fix all this by voting more often, or better, or whatever. Now that I think back, my junior high civics class taught me the same thing!

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by slg on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @05:43PM (#9815403)

I am sensing sarcasm, so I just want to point to the 2014 primary turnout numbers. Less than 18% [1] of total eligible voters cast a ballot in the 2014 primary elections. When you have that much apathy, it suddenly becomes a lot easier to sway elections with a few million dollars.

[1] - http://humanevents.com/2014/10/08/republican-2014-primary-tu...

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by TeMPOraL on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @05:35PM (#9815349)

Only if you'd scale that up to the entire country.

But maybe not even then. You vote for the candidate that can best convince you to vote for them. So this is the metric the system will optimize for. Politicians that make good decisions or stick to their principles get outcompeted by those who focus on marketing themselves and pandering to the public. Even if you make the electorate more educated and engaged, this will only do so much to fix the misalignment of values. Unless you know a way to immunize someone to marketing completely, I see no hope for fixing voting. I infer that every democracy, as it matures, degenerates into a popularity contest.

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by zanny on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @05:43PM (#9815408)

It also does nothing to correct the apathetic public we have had for the past... sixty? Years. The incredible amount of gerrymandering done to rig the house of representatives is incredible, and the Senate is already inherently biased because its giving every voter in Wyoming 67 times the influence of a voter of California. Unsurprisingly, Wyoming has not elected a non-Republican senator in over fifty years.

It should be no surprise that the will of the people no longer has any real correlation with the policy voted into law by congress.

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by TeMPOraL on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:10PM (#9815584)

Apathy may be something that grows with time as well. It seems to me (though I don't have much evidence to back it up so I welcome being shown I'm wrong) that a lifespan of a functioning democracy is ~100 years. The people who shed blood for it care. Their children are taught to care as well. But the grand-grand-children, born into a working system, don't have any context of how it was before that would give them motivation to care and perform required maintenance. And then, the system starts to degrade.

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:36PM (#9815714)

And for the US, one could plausibly start that 100 year clock in 1865, rather than in 1789. That would put the start of the apathy in 1965. Feels about right.

(Unless you're going to count it from 1945, in which case the real apathy hasn't started yet.)

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by jessaustin on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @08:32PM (#9816216)

We have not yet begun not to care!

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by brudgers on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @05:36PM (#9815355)

corporations gained this power...because they have more collective money

Consistent with the golden rule of economics.

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by gress on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @06:12PM (#9815598)

You make it sound as though being easily manipulated by people with a lot of resources is a character flaw, rather than a characteristic of all humans throughout history.

It is unlikely (and maybe even undesirable) that we are going to be able to easily overcome our inherent susceptibility to influence. Therefore if we are to improve things we must recognize that this is part of who we are, and design our institutions accordingly.

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by oldmanjay on Wednesday July 01, 2015 @08:52PM (#9816285)

Realism on all sides of this debate would be amazingly helpful. For instance, this continual disingenuous cry of "the corporations!" is stupid on its face. Are corporations autonomous intelligent entities outside of the will of powerful people? No! It's powerful people lobbying for rules that will help them. Destroy the concept of corporations tomorrow and you will still have powerful people who bend government to their will - you'll probably just have fewer people with much greater shares of power.

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Re:Leaked: What's in TPP’s intellectual property chapter by gress on Thursday July 02, 2015 @07:11PM (#9822356)

Why do you bring this up? Do you think my comment involved taking a side?

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