Re:I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American an...
by bruceb on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @01:20PM
(#9766108)
So it hurts the "the very low end, among unskilled high-school dropouts."
Maybe we should not be hurting these people.
Not everyone with a bachalors degree is needed. There are plenty of Americans with bachalors that need work.
Re:I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American an...
by murbard2 on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @01:25PM
(#9766163)
The effect measured was about -5%. On the other hand, for many, immigration is a matter of life and death.
Re:I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American an...
by bruceb on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @01:53PM
(#9766365)
For most immigration isn't life or death. For most it is about moving up economically. But whose interest do you value more citizens or non citizens?
There are about 200 countries/territories in the world. The isn't the only option and the US isn't obligate to take everyone.
Re:I spent the last 15 years trying to become an American an...
by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday June 24, 2015 @10:01AM
(#9771593)
And what if we don't consider having policies created and selected by a wealthy elite to be a good thing, and actually want the will of the masses to make policy? Or, in other words, what if we actually prefer democracy over plutocracy?
- I see letting in anyone with the equivalent of a bachelor's degree (or say anyone that anyone is willing to hire for more $40k a year) as basically having no downsides at all. Empirical data on immigration reveals that it has no impact on wages except at the very low end, among unskilled high-school dropouts.
- As you allow lower incomes, welfare tends to become an issue. Currently, people do not immigrate in the US for the welfare (illegal immigrants tend to be net taxpayers, even when including healthcare) but people do immigrate to Europe for the welfare, so it's something that happens. However, if you take a country like France (where I grew up in), welfare payments aren't the biggest drag on the economy. Taxation is high, but other places with similar levels of taxation fare much better. Regulatory drag, in particular in the job market is a much bigger concern. In turns, this creates unemployment which aggravates any welfare problem. Evidence shows that as societies become more culturally and ethnically mixed, they tend to be less and less in favor of welfare. So higher immigration of welfare seeking immigrants may undermine popular support for welfare. It's a whole other discussion, but I'd consider disappearance of state funded welfare as a good thing. In addition, it's also possible to selectively deny welfare to immigrants, or to require a twenty year residency period before becoming eligible.
- Political externalities are often mentioned. Won't immigrants vote for the same policies that made their home country a living hell? I find this doubtful for two reasons:
Now getting to New Zealand. Assuming only honest hard working immigrant seeking a better life? You've cut out the work for me! I think you'd see a lot of high rises build up in New Zealand. Consider that the current population of New Zealand could fit in a circle 7 km in radius in a city with the density of New York. If Stewart Island was all built up, it could hold the entire population of Canada.In practice, as more people would emigrate, real estate prices would appreciate, to the point where it wouldn't be economical for immigrants to come in, even if the borders were open.