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Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by mc32 on Monday June 22, 2015 @12:41AM (#9756188)
It's a calculated risk though, right? If they bail out Greece that sets precedent for future mismanaged economies to get bailed out and it gives the rest of the pigs the impression you don't have to pay the piper.

On the other hand, if you let Greece leave the euro, it signals the others that Germany (and France) are serious and they had better not fool around.

A Greece with a weak currency does not impact the euro zone economy in any great way. Yannis probably thinks Germany would blink but at this point Germany has likely written them down already.

Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by x0x0 on Monday June 22, 2015 @01:08AM (#9756259)
It's nothing like it.

The simple fact is that states that have large differences in productivity / accumulated infrastructure / endowments must either

1 - have floating currencies;

2 - use government purchases to sterilize the currencies ala china;

3 - support permanent financial flows from the more to the less productive states

Since the currency union effectively forbids #1 and #2, the only solutions left are #3 or the end of the currency union.

This is more-or-less identical to the continued subsidization of the south -- direct fed to state government transfers, eitc, medicare and medicaid, welfare, the military (which is, for many soldiers, essentially a work program), etc -- in the united states by the more productive coastal and northern states.

You may also be unaware that Greece has largely never been bailed out: of the so-called bailout so far, more than half the cash went to shaky German and other foreign banks [1].

[1] http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2012-05-23/merkel-shou...

Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by eru on Monday June 22, 2015 @01:49AM (#9756407)
> The simple fact is that states that have large differences in productivity / accumulated infrastructure / endowments must either

What happens if they don't?

Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by x0x0 on Monday June 22, 2015 @01:49AM (#9756408)
we're about to find out!
Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by eru on Monday June 22, 2015 @03:55AM (#9756826)
Didn't independent countries on the gold standard have a similar problem? Neither of #1, #2 nor #3 were available to them.
Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by hellgas00 on Monday June 22, 2015 @01:13AM (#9756272)
It also destroys confidence within countries that are near the brink of collapse, why would I invest in a country that has an unstable future, is what credit markets would be thinking. As well, the debt of Greece has been restructured in light of their financial issues so that the ECB and IMF hold the majority of Greek bonds, have the other faltering countries had their debt restructured? If not that could be an issue going forward. Would the collapse of one country lead to financial contagion? Germany has gained quite a bit from being a part of the Euro, they would also stand to lose a lot from the dissolution of it.
Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by mc32 on Monday June 22, 2015 @01:46AM (#9756394)
My understanding is the rest of the pigs are, relative to Greece, much more viable and can avert defaults and likely would not need to exit the euro. They have a good industrial base.

Greece has perennially been an underachiever and on top of that wants to live like the rest of europe. One of the biggest issues is tax corruption. They just don't get the tax revenue they need in order to support the lifestyle (retirement, social services, etc) they desire.

People with means had an easy time evading taxes --for some income brackets it was practically voluntary. That's not viable.

Bailing Greece out would be throwing good money after bad. At some point you have to realize there are better places to invest your money.

Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by nhaehnle on Monday June 22, 2015 @02:28AM (#9756533)
My understanding is the rest of the pigs are, relative to Greece, much more viable [...]

This explains why today, after the financial crisis of 2007/08, it happens to be Greece in this miserable situation. Greece was the weakest link of Euro countries.

However, imagine a world in which there is a precedent for a Euro exit, and another recession hits. Big funds that have money tied in government bonds will want to exit bonds of weaker countries out of fear that the Greek story repeats.

This then creates the same self-fulfilling vicious cycle that hit Greece: as creditors move elsewhere, interest rates for the weakest countries increase, which worsens those countries' fiscal position, which makes more creditors leave, etc.

In such a situation, it is easy for the weakest link to be pushed over the brink.

Bailing Greece out would be trowing good money after bad.

Keep in mind that Greece isn't actually asking for more money for Greece. The Greek government was running a primary surplus for some time, and is perhaps even running one today, or at least close to it. The only reason for the Greek government to be in deficit is the interest payment, which means that all money that is being "thrown at Greece" actually ends up abroad in creditor countries!

Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by mcv on Monday June 22, 2015 @07:59AM (#9757641)
The problem with the mismanaged economies isn't the bailing out, it's that they got such easy loans for such a long time, because the moneylenders thought they'd get their money back no matter what. If the moneylenders lose money on this, they'll probably be a bit more hesitant keeping incompetent and corrupt governments in the saddle.

Suggesting that Greece as a whole is single-handedly responsible for this mess is silly. Yes, of course their governments over the past decade and a half were incompetent and corrupt, but it was because of the cheap loans that they could cover up the problems and keep up the appearance to the voters that all was fine. Without that, they'd have been voted out of office that much sooner. Instead, the easy money left the bad situation to fester for far too long.

Re:Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis by mc32 on Tuesday June 23, 2015 @04:47PM (#9767675)
Do if we let them default and the lenders lose their shirts, this is a good lesson for both. Lenders learn to not make bad loans and governments learn fiscal responsibility. Most people in the U.S. More or less think it was a mistake to bail out so many big banks (decrying the too big to fail rationale) why do we have a different opinion when it comes to Greece and German banks? Let them lose the shirts.

In the end, I think Greece will blink, they'll try to work something out, but pretend they had the best of the EU negotiators. My gut feeling is that if it came down to it, Germany would let them leave the EU. I think psychologically they have written them down and if a deal happens, well, the better.