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Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by sosuke on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @01:19AM (#9644005)
Why does money motivation reduce your chances? I don't think being exceptional is enough, there are several open source projects created and maintained by exceptional devs, but they don't make >600k/year. Being exceptional working at anything but the right company won't make you money.

Why do you thing "dev big corps" are better? What does that mean to you? I think of Microsoft, Google, IBM, Apple, but even after you get in there moving up to exceptional in a room of exceptional people is even a more meteoric task.

Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by nudpiedo on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @03:50AM (#9644483)
I agree with you. I work in one of those which you mentioned in Germany, and I've less than 3 years experience. By accident I saw the payroll of a top-dev (top engineer actually), and it is "just the double" of mine.

That makes makes for a good living with many luxuries Germany standard's but those guys are the ones who have to dance in front of the local CEO every week and can't enjoy weekends and work in the afternoon. They can afford sometimes low level luxury cars but for sure they can't stop working and just retire.

For them work developing or implement something is a hobby they can do after a whole day full of meetings.

Not a dream dev life, not a way to become actually rich. And I'd add: not a way to enjoy life (if you hate meetings and empty technical discussions which are not about the technical topic but about a political reason which usually sucks).

Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by levosmetalo on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @04:54AM (#9644663)
Was in the same place as your top-dev. Was exhausted after a day of coding, without getting real appreciation, neither monetary, nor in terms on mindshare. I was always looked upon as an "IT guy" or "technical staff" that gets in the way of implementing great business and marketing ideas created in the heads of great minds, that were so great that it wasn't even possible to write them down accurately.

Then I switched to management path, I found out that although I do only a very limited amount of coding at work right now, I'm enjoying it much more. As an added benefit, I am not mentally tired anymore when I come back home, since at work I only do blah-blah social, blah-blah report, blah-blah management. This leaves me with enough time and energy in the evening to work on really interesting projects for an excellent hourly rate, or on my own hobby stuff. The drawback? I don't watch TV anymore.

Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by mistermann on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @09:56AM (#9645832)
> I was always looked upon as an "IT guy" or "technical staff" that gets in the way of implementing great business and marketing ideas created in the heads of great minds, that were so great that it wasn't even possible to write them down accurately.

As someone else who works with people with self-proclaimed great ideas but are strangely reluctant to put any of these ideas on paper, it's comforting to know there are others out there who have to work amongst such nonsense.

Edit: I'm curious....do you find now that you've made the move to management, have you had to adopt this same "less than honest" culture in order to be accepted within the middle management ranks?

Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by lrem on Wednesday June 03, 2015 @04:47AM (#9651297)
> I work in one of those which you mentioned in Germany

That's the reason. Europe is not really the place for making a fortune. It has the "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" mindset, which leads to the fact that starting salaries for software devs (even after a PhD, as in my case), in the country where that motto is official, are within a standard deviation from bus drivers. Magnitude of this varies, but unless you're a no-life breathing for the bonus in a hedge fund, you're not going to earn 10x.

BTW, typically you don't need an accident to know what others are earning. I easily got samples of different pay grades, in different companies in two European countries, just by asking them directly. People are surprisingly open about that.

Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by caminante on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @01:35AM (#9644051)
Maybe it's late, but I thought he answered your Q1 and Q2.
Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by sosuke on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @01:45AM (#9644087)
It is late, I can't think super clear either, but I just read that he says money should not be the focus, but doesn't address why that is an issue.

As to why big dev corps are better he didn't give any reasons for his belief, no examples. Person y makes $1 million a year at company x, but they aquihired their startup to get there. If I started at big dev corp as a senior developer and made $100k, what path does it take to get $600k, which company offers those incentives? I really just want some more detail.

Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by caminante on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @02:10AM (#9644167)
For Q1, he said that money shouldn't be the ONLY focus.

For Q2, I "think" he's saying that CorpDev > StartupDev in terms of expected wealth creation. In your example, you don't appear to be accounting for the volatility of your future CF's of $1M (StartupDev) and $100K (CorpDev) figures. Startups are risky bets compared to stable increases with CorpDev.

Re:Beside a startup, what are the other ways to significant ... by sparaker on Tuesday June 02, 2015 @02:42AM (#9644261)
100% agreed.