In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances

Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by bsenftner on Sunday May 31, 2015 @11:01AM (#9634353)

The US prison system is actually an industrialized slavery system for US corporations. The prison system here has a "work program" for inmates where they earn pennies per hour to manufacture products for US corporations. Investigate how institutionalized this practice has become. We need to stop this immediately, as it can and will spread unless we do. This is evil unmasked.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-unit... http://www.alternet.org/story/151732/21st-century_slaves%3A_... http://www.forbes.com/2008/08/18/prison-small-business-ent-m...

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by notdanariely on Sunday May 31, 2015 @01:17PM (#9634790)

I agree that this trend is disturbing, but am unable to reconcile your alarmist language with the numbers in the links you provided.

I do not support private corporations (or even public good -- yes, I think the chain gang days of old are similarly awful) making money off of prisoners. However, from the articles you linked, some data:

* 2 million (2,000,000) inmates in federal/state/local prisons.

* 100 private prisons, 62,000 inmates in them (6.2%)

* 18 corporations guard 10,000 prisoners in 27 states (unsure how this relates to previous point, the article isn't very well written and doesn't connect these numbers)

* Forbes.com article says there are 6,000 prisoners in the US serving time while working for a private enterprise.

So on the one extreme, we're looking at 6% of the prison population being affected by this. At the other extreme, there are only 6k prisoners affected.

I believe there are a huge number of ethical and moral violations surrounding the prison side of the US criminal justice system. Private prisons are one of them, but hyperbole and extreme language do not serve any of the population.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by tptacek on Monday June 01, 2015 @12:09AM (#9636762)

It's also not totally clear what the disadvantages of private prisons are, versus overcrowded public prisons. Whatever the case, it's almost certainly true that it's a subset of the 6% of inmates in private prisons who are harmed by prison privatization.

(I have no idea what I think about private prisons. I do not automatically assume that systems controlled by corporations are worse than those controlled by government bureaucracies. Public or private, US prison sentences are far too long for most crimes.)

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by themartorana on Sunday May 31, 2015 @02:22PM (#9634994)

I think "hyperbole" is unfair. Waiting to be "alarmist" until after an "alarm" has the capacity to halt a terrible situation is rather pointless. It's so much easier to stop a bad practice than walk it back from significant implementation.

This may be small, but it's growing rapidly, and if it's 6.2% now, it's 15% by 2020, and so on.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by rayiner on Sunday May 31, 2015 @02:43PM (#9635075)

The problem with the argument is not that it's not worth raising alarm about 6%. It's alarming--that number was basically 0% 20 years ago. However, the argument doesn't explain how our justice system got to be the way it is. Private prison corporations didn't create extreme minimum sentences. They came along after the fact to profit from them. The core problem is a lack of virtue in the American people. We're unsympathetic, unforgiving, and unmerciful. our lack of virtue created the system that opportunists are now profiting from.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by kevinnk on Sunday May 31, 2015 @03:59PM (#9635326)

Ironically, painting broad swaths of people with labels like "non-virtuous" is how we got extreme sentences In the first place.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by harryh on Sunday May 31, 2015 @05:37PM (#9635660)

It's not, in fact, growing rapidly.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by sliverstorm on Sunday May 31, 2015 @02:22PM (#9634996)

Is there a reason we should be against work programs? There are moral hazards, but to my knowledge having something constructive to do & being able to make a little money have positive effects on rehabilitation, reintegration, and daily prison life.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by thatcat on Sunday May 31, 2015 @02:41PM (#9635068)

Since they are paid less than minimum wage it's unfair to external workers and should be illegal. If they cost less than non prisoners to employ and have their food/housing subsidized by tax payers - no one will ever compete for the same jobs. It's nearly-free labor for companies subsidized by everyone else.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by sliverstorm on Sunday May 31, 2015 @02:52PM (#9635114)

So we subsidize the employment of prisoners to help with their reintegration back into society. I don't see the problem.

Hell, so long as it's effective, we're saving money in the long run. Money spent curbing recidivism pays for itself, considering a prisoner costs tens of thousands of dollars a year.

Also, it's not like prisoners are competing for the best jobs. There are heavy restrictions on their employment (part of why a strong incentive is needed to make them employable) so they are unlikely to be competing for software development jobs anytime soon. They do things like clean roadsides and stamp license plates.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by ceejayoz on Sunday May 31, 2015 @02:36PM (#9635040)

> Is there a reason we should be against work programs?

Inherently? No.

Work programs where the pay is a tenth or less that of even minimum wage, though, are easily abused.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by tedunangst on Sunday May 31, 2015 @04:05PM (#9635351)

Sounds like the solution is to pay them nothing and call it "training".

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by rokhayakebe on Sunday May 31, 2015 @01:26PM (#9634817)

The US prison system is actually an industrialized slavery system for US corporations.

I do not have the data/link, but I heard from trusted source that some of the companies that build and operate prisons require states to guarantee maximum occupancy before they build a new jail.

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by jeffmould on Sunday May 31, 2015 @02:16PM (#9634977)

Not sure why you are being downvoted here, but this is a true statement. Most private prison corporations have occupancy clauses in their contract that mandate either (a) 100%+ occupancy before building a new prison, or (b) in place of occupancy the state can elect to pay a higher premium per inmate. The US legal system is built on fulfilling the occupancy rates to avoid the higher fees.

http://www.inthepublicinterest.org/article/criminal-how-lock...

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Re:In Norway, a Prison Built on Second Chances by rokhayakebe on Sunday May 31, 2015 @07:49PM (#9636083)

Not sure why you are being downvoted here

Me neither. HN.

Here are some additional links:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/private-prisons-occu..., http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/19/private-prison-quot...

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