Writing a website in Rust

Re:Writing a website in Rust by Rusky on Saturday May 30, 2015 @02:48PM (#9631284)

The benchmarks game's results are not very correlated with real-world performance.

In this context, Rust's semantics do allow C-level performance- they make it straightforward to describe the same machine code that C would. In some cases, they even enable more compiler optimizations than C does.

Java, on the other hand, makes it hard or impossible to do that (straightforwardly at least). A more mature compiler will make a lot of difference- compare early Java performance to where it is now, for example.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Saturday May 30, 2015 @07:09PM (#9632190)

>>not very correlated with real-world performance<<

Please share your measurements of "real-world performance" that are "not very correlated" with the benchmarks game's results.

edit: Please provide a better response than downmods.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by pcwalton on Saturday May 30, 2015 @07:28PM (#9632270)

Servo layout, painting, DOM performance. JSON serialization in serde.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Saturday May 30, 2015 @07:58PM (#9632378)

Obviously not in any way an answer to the question asked.

edit: Please provide a better response than downmods.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by Daishiman on Saturday May 30, 2015 @10:35PM (#9632803)

Go actually check the things pcwalton mentioned instead of complaining.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Sunday May 31, 2015 @12:48AM (#9633132)

Please provide comparison measurements of the things pcwalton mentioned.

Just a URL to published comparison measurements would be so much more interesting for anyone interested in Rust, than downmods.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by pcwalton on Sunday May 31, 2015 @12:44PM (#9634667)

http://erickt.github.io/blog/2014/12/13/performance-digressi...

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Sunday May 31, 2015 @01:52PM (#9634893)

How about some measurements made with rustc 1.0.0?

(There seem to have been plenty of breaking language changes in the last 6 months.)

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by Manishearth on Monday June 01, 2015 @04:17AM (#9637302)

http://xania.org/201505/on-rust-performance

(The "faster" bit isn't important; various reasons might have made C++ slower than Rust for this, but what is important is that perf was comparable)

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Monday June 01, 2015 @12:47PM (#9640070)

Do you think a 100 line ray tracer is any more "correlated with real-world performance" than 100 line benchmarks game programs?

What I questioned was Rusky's technical-sounding but apparently unsupported claim that "the benchmarks game's results are not very correlated with real-world performance." For Rusky to know he'd need some kind-of "real-world performance" measurements and a correlation coefficient - neither of which have been shown.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by steveklabnik on Saturday May 30, 2015 @02:30PM (#9631205)

We've been focused more on language semantics than the Benchmarks Game for a while now. A few months ago, iirc, we were faster than C on some of them.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by jamii on Saturday May 30, 2015 @02:48PM (#9631287)

It looks like the worst offenders (vs C) are regex-dna (which is a young regex + unicode vs pcre + ascii) and fasta (where the rust version is still single-core). The others are at 1-2x cpu and on par for memory. I suspect most of them could be on par or better with a little effort - only regex looks hard.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by burntsushi on Saturday May 30, 2015 @10:23PM (#9632771)

> only regex looks hard.

I'm working on improving the regex engine now. Hopefully I can submit some improvements soon. :-) It will be hard to get near the top, but I think there's some low hanging fruit I can tackle first.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Saturday May 30, 2015 @07:15PM (#9632218)

Let's not make this about the benchmarks game.

A couple of weeks ago you said -- "… optimizing performance hasn't been a focus, shipping good language semantics has been."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9565405

edit: Please provide a better response than downmods.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by pcwalton on Saturday May 30, 2015 @07:28PM (#9632271)

Optimizing language performance has been a focus.

Optimizing the workloads tested on the benchmarks game has not been a focus.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Saturday May 30, 2015 @08:00PM (#9632385)

You seem to have a disagreement with what steveklabnik said, so please take that up with him.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9554676

edit: Please provide a better response than downmods.

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by ben0x539 on Sunday May 31, 2015 @06:44AM (#9633775)

Please provide better manners than those in your comments. :)

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Sunday May 31, 2015 @08:53AM (#9633999)

It isn't bad manners to ask Rusky or pcwalton to show measurements in support of their claims.

It isn't bad manners to trust that when steveklabnik answers "No, as optimizing performance hasn't been a focus, shipping good language semantics has been." that's what he means.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9554676

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by adwn on Sunday May 31, 2015 @03:11AM (#9633351)

Okay, so I just tested the n-body benchmark [1] for Rust and C++ (program #8), and where they list runtimes of 24.62/9.4 (a factor of 2.62), I actually got a factor of 1.25 (5.45/4.35) on my machine [2]. I used the same version of Rust and nearly the same version of gcc (4.9.1 vs 4.9.2).

Conclusion: Don't draw conclusions from the benchmarks game.

[1] http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/performance.php...

[2] i5-3470 @ 3.20GHz

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by igouy on Sunday May 31, 2015 @08:55AM (#9634008)

Conclusion: "Measurement is highly specific … Measurement is not prophesy." (benchmarks game homepage.)

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Re:Writing a website in Rust by supster on Saturday May 30, 2015 @02:13PM (#9631139)

> what are some of the things that make a language more suited to systems programming rather than web

the answer was to what qualities make a lang suited for systems programming not just specific to Rust

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