News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by mrmondo on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @09:02AM (#9569681)
I wonder if this is the time to argue that it may be worth open sourcing the controlling software for hackers to start criticising and contributing pull requests to. I'm willing to bet that the competence of the collective community far outweighs that of those specially trained to write the software at present.

What is there to lose by opening up the software to criticism other than better aviation safety? We know that obfuscating / hiding source code does not make applications / platforms safer or less at risk to malicious behaviour so I'd like to challenge the manufacturers to do so.

Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by sleeping_pills on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @09:35AM (#9569897)
While I agree with your statement that open sourcing code can help with improving it's quality, how exactly do you envision (paraphrasing) "hackers contributing pull requests" to code that controls engines on an airplane? Here you have an extremely specialized codebase which can perhaps be understood by a tiny group of professionals and it can actually be tested by an absolutely vanishingly small group of individuals under special circumstances. I don't think "hackers" could even begin to make useful critique of this kind of software, let alone contribute pull requests to it.
Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by nraynaud on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @02:02PM (#9571938)
I agree with your conclusion, but not exactly for the same reason. Those projects are huge, there is never really small group of people working on something, it's often spread upon contractors over sub-contractors, with people leaving and coming, over many years, so in the end the information is quite spread. Plus there is a lot of documentation (which might also be a downside, because there is a hunt for relevant information). But what I would fear is that people would feel good about it being open source, and never go to have an actual look at it. Or go for a little bit in the beginning and then never again.
Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by madez on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @10:29AM (#9570275)
You sound exactly like my current boss, who says that Linux is just a hobby project that you can put no trust in.

I mean, who would fix problems if it's just a hobby? And if it's open, it must be a hobby. Surely, that can't possibly work!

Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by sleeping_pills on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @01:13PM (#9571600)
Did you actually read my post? If yes, can you seriously not see the difference between writing/testing an OS and writing/testing the software that controls jet engines?

Open sourcing something like Linux works very well _precisely_ because it has a very large audience and is (relatively) approachable by hobbyists too.

On the other hand, aerospace engineering and software is narrowly specialized with a (relatively) small group of experts and code used in commercial/military aircraft is anything but approachable to hobbyists.

Then there is the fact that unit testing this kind of code requires engineering knowledge of the specific hardware involved (e.g. not just any jet engine, but one very specific model). Finally, let us not even mention the huge pink elephant in the room, namely that the absolute and vast majority of "hackers" does not have access to jet engines used in commercial (or military) airplanes and even fewer have the ability to conduct test flights.

Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by DougWebb on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @09:23AM (#9569809)
What is there to lose? 0-Day attacks. Knowledge about bugs in aviation software is potentially more valuable to people who wish to do harm than to the people who would fix the bugs, so there's a concern that someone who finds a bug will sell that info rather than let the maintainers know about it.

The other problem is that the maintainers have to be set up to handle a potential avalanche of comments, criticisms, questions, and pull requests, mostly from people who don't know anything about software development processes and standards within the aviation community. If they're already too overloaded to find all of the bugs themselves, they certainly won't be able to effectively manage open-sourcing their code.

Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by mason240 on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @09:28AM (#9569832)
Realistically, how could someone exploit a 0-day in a aviation software?
Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by DougWebb on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @09:32AM (#9569867)
I don't know. I wouldn't want to find out. But more realistically, a good bug that's worth a lot of money will be subtle and hard to find, which means it may be around long enough to be exploitable.
Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by nradov on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @02:35PM (#9572177)
This is a military aircraft. By opening up their software, Airbus would lose by enabling their foreign competitors and enemies to copy parts of it thus reducing their R&D costs and gaining a competitive and strategic advantage.
Re:A400M Airbus Flier crashed because of software issues by geon on Tuesday May 19, 2015 @09:26AM (#9569818)
Percieved commercial advantage and pride.