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Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by darkxanthos on Monday May 11, 2015 @11:21AM (#9525398)
Right now, a huge opportunity for Python seems to be data science. I didn't notice it in the list of places where Python shows up. Also, in that space, it more than just shows up, it brings unique capability to the space with its libraries and the support major tool developers have for it.
Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by mpdehaan2 on Monday May 11, 2015 @11:39AM (#9525520)
I think folks just don't talk about Python, they get things done.

While I think, say, other areas also get things done, Rails developers are more likely to blog and have pretty fonts. Nothing against that, it just seems to be the case.

While metrics show there's more Python out there, it's just not exciting, it doesn't change a lot, and it just works. And that's fine too.

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by tedmiston on Monday May 11, 2015 @11:59AM (#9525665)
I find myself thinking (hoping) this is the case too. In fact, writing the post to talk about Python at this level was indirectly inspired by a talk I heard at Code Genius (http://code.genius.com/), put on by the Ruby-based Rap Genius Engineering team.

With respect to metrics, I think having the baseline is important, and you're right. I also found myself looking for more granular metrics then what I was able to find. I really want to be able to answer questions like

- "Within Python, how is usage shifting between web apps, scientific work (both research prototyping and in practice), open source, machine learning, etc.?" - "How are the 'frameworks on top of frameworks' like Flask-RESTful and Django Rest Framework changing in adoption over time?" - "Is anyone actually adopting Python 3 as their default yet?"

I wasn't quite able to find that data, but if anyone has ideas for first steps in getting there, I'd be happy to contribute (email in profile).

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by mpdehaan2 on Monday May 11, 2015 @02:12PM (#9526672)
On my end (east coast US), I hear the Python/data/analytics things a lot but haven't directly encountered those companies.

Python was at least previously big in a lot of local shops doing a lot of systems programming type stuff (management apps) -- including folks like Red Hat and HP, including my old one (Ansible). Startups are still highly likely to use it.

There are enough Django shops around, including at least one major Django consultancy-type shop, but it feels like slightly more (but not much more) rails on the web side.

I'm not plugged into the industry biotech to know how much Python is floating around, but I think it's probably pretty common, just that those folks travel in slightly different circles and we don't cross polinate enough.

"Is anyone actually adopting Python 3 as their default yet?"

Almost certaintly someone has, the real question is what percentage and what characterizes them :)

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by baldfat on Monday May 11, 2015 @11:56AM (#9525632)
Python is still over shadowed by R in data science.

I stopped using Python for data science and use R and it really worked out great for me. R has gained a lot of momentum and I think that Pandas with Wes leaving isn't being developed as quickly. (Most of it is re-doing what R has done). I am amazed at all the FUD I was told to not use R and just use Python but after hitting so many walls I tired it and I am so glad I did. Your millage may vary.

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by PaulHoule on Monday May 11, 2015 @12:15PM (#9525808)
R is an awful language with great libraries.

My main beef about R (and similar tools) is that I summarize my data I get from Hadoop and find it is still too big for R to handle and I then have to summarize it some more.

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by baldfat on Monday May 11, 2015 @09:06PM (#9528925)
R does not deserve to be called awful. It is a language that works for many people, people make a living from it and is one of the fastest growing languages.

[1] https://blog.javascripting.com/2014/07/28/fastest-growing-ne...

[2] http://www.pcworld.com/article/2480920/r-programming-languag...

[3] http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/01/14/language-rankings-1-15...

Yes I have read [R Inferno] http://www.burns-stat.com/pages/Tutor/R_inferno.pdf

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by baldfat on Monday May 11, 2015 @01:00PM (#9526155)
Have you tried the Hadley Universe? Seriously there isn't a data set that Python can do that R can't (Lots of ways to do things as opposed to Python's one correct way). Using dplyr has been a huge change in the way I do any data munging. Panda's has started using some of dplyr with new function assign. Dplyr really handles large data sets well like data.tables (data.table is fast and handles larger sets but I like dplyr's syntax more)

By the way i should have stated that Python is a good choice for doing Data Science it is just that R works better for me.

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by chubot on Monday May 11, 2015 @08:22PM (#9528754)
As others have said, try data.table.

You assessment is pretty accurate. R is almost the opposite of Python -- you HAVE to use lots of external libraries. Whereas in Python, the core is super solid, but the libraries you get are of varying quality.

R took me the longest to learn out of any language. I currently have coworkers struggling with R, and cursing it. But the learning pays off... it's pretty much the only option out there right now (and yes I use Python for almost everything, but you need R too.)

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by Lofkin on Monday May 11, 2015 @12:18PM (#9525839)
Have you tried data.table?
Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by Lofkin on Monday May 11, 2015 @12:16PM (#9525815)
Thanks for your insight. I have some questions for your, if you don't mind.

What walls and why did you switch? Did you find the shift in syntax and mindset difficult? Have you used rpy2?

There definitely seems to be more innovation in R world, but blaze, numba and bokeh have no R equal.

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by baldfat on Monday May 11, 2015 @01:07PM (#9526200)
Walls:

I work at a Microsoft Office Universe (They refuse to know of any tools besides Word and you are a tech god if you use Excel) So when I finish my reports in R I actually give them Office Documents. The presentation is actually Power Point and the documents are in Word.

I left Python and Pandas and the visualization was far behind what R had in its tool chain. I still feel that R does visualizations best.

RStudio (A true IDE) was better for my work flow than IPython/Juypter. I actually really missed IPython at first and than slowly I grew to love RStudio.

Not a wall, maybe a paper cut. A 1 index (R) over a 0 index (Python) is pretty smart for doing statistics, less errors.

I also liked the flexibility to use whatever I wanted to do my work. Was difficult at first than learned to love the fact that there were 3 good ways to do something.

Functional Programming. You can do some good functional programming with R. Functions are first class citizens.

Biggest reason for anyone to switch is Hadley Wickham and his work with RStudio. It really is amazing everything that he has done for R in the last 5 years.

Once again Python will get the job done but these are some of the reasons why I switched.

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by Lofkin on Monday May 11, 2015 @03:09PM (#9527140)
Interesting thanks for sharing. Hopefully bokeh might be able to address the visualization space with its upcoming statistical glyphs.

When you say "flexibility to use whatever I wanted to do my work", do you mean data munging and manipulation or statistical modeling packages?

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by baldfat on Monday May 11, 2015 @07:02PM (#9528426)
Programming I mean that I have 5 different ways of doing anything and everything. SO if I want to do loops (I never do and people shouldn't) I can. If I want to do strict funtional programming, no problem. If I want to use a SQL type syntax I can use data.table. This is frustrating at first since stackoverflow will have a bunch of solutions and it will be something new. I end up really using a few libraries and sticking with them. I use dplyr, stringr, httr, ggvis or ggplot2 and tidyr.

Graphics I can use just about anything. I can use plottly, ggplot2, D3.js, PDF report, HTML, send to a blogging site, interactive graphics with ggvisand Shiney, even PowerPoint slides.

Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by eatonphil on Monday May 11, 2015 @07:06PM (#9528434)
Functions are not first-class citizens in Python?
Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by jules on Monday May 11, 2015 @12:10PM (#9525758)

    <-- Maturity -- Fundamentals well designed -->
           R       Python      Julia
Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by bsg75 on Monday May 11, 2015 @12:23PM (#9525891)
The relationship between maturity and design with respect to usefulness is not linear, with respect to "usefulness in production".
Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by jules on Monday May 11, 2015 @12:32PM (#9525948)
Right, but it does depend on how long term you view it. Problems in the fundamentals of the core language can't be fixed, a mature library ecosystem can be developed.
Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by realusername on Monday May 11, 2015 @12:11PM (#9525772)
I also have the same feeling. Python is very mathematics-friendly compared to other imperative languages and is used a lot more than other mainstream languages for mathematics related projects. On Github, there is a lot of good quality machine learning and statistics projects built with Python.
Re:PyCon 2015: Are we still changing the world? by tedmiston on Monday May 11, 2015 @11:37AM (#9525508)
I agree with you 100%. I also got a comment from a NASA engineer that other strong additions are NASA itself and the Department of Energy. If you know of any specific companies, I'd definitely welcome the suggestion.