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Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by hnnewguy on Monday March 30, 2015 @03:36PM (#9292009)
>It just always makes me chuckle when criminals won't face the fact that they are criminals.

"I know, right? Why don't all those damn sodomites just take their chemical castration and shut up and accept the fact they're criminals?"

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by thomasahle on Monday March 30, 2015 @04:22PM (#9292307)
>>It just always makes me chuckle when criminals won't face the fact that they are criminals.

>"I know, right? Why don't all those damn sodomites just take their chemical castration and shut up and accept the fact they're criminals?"

"I took mine, and I'm thankful for it every day. No pity."

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by sliverstorm on Monday March 30, 2015 @03:47PM (#9292089)
My favorite legal defense, moral relativism.

"One day, this heinous crime I have committed might not be illegal. Knowing that, how can you possibly convict me!?"

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by pyre on Monday March 30, 2015 @03:52PM (#9292124)
The general stance that "you broke the law, now you're a criminal" may be technically correct, but most people issuing such statements group "criminals" into a singular group and feel that the serial murderer and the child rapist are no different than the guy that forgot he had an orange in his car when crossing the border. "You've broken the rules of society, you are no better than a vagabond!"

In light of this, how can one not lose faith in the law when so many laws that punish people for stupid things are on the books just because a bunch of religious people want to force everyone to "follow their religion" to a minor extent or how the system is setup in a way that encourages government prosecutors to view the people in the cases that are put on their desk as little more than pawns in a game to "make a name" for themselves?

[There's also the fact that judges/lawyers try to hide the idea of jury nullification from juries too...]

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by tedunangst on Monday March 30, 2015 @04:12PM (#9292247)
Welcome to life in a democracy. Stupid people voting for stupid laws. Why can't we just put the smart people in charge?
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by logfromblammo on Monday March 30, 2015 @05:03PM (#9292601)
Because everyone at the 51st percentile and below for intelligence forms a voting majority, and systematically disenfranchising people based on their intellect would invite abuse of the voter qualifications systems.

So we can't just put the smart people in charge. We have to slowly educate the stupid people out of existence, until the dumbest 51% are finally capable of determining the best people to make decisions, based primarily on their aptitude, rather than on their popularity.

When voting for county dogcatcher, for instance, people would look for "D.V.M." after the candidate's name, rather than "(D)" or "(R)". When people want to hire me, they look at my resume, not my hairline, lapel pin, or party affiliation.

Hey, here's an idea! What's the political science equivalent of FizzBuzz? Whatever it is, you can't get on the ballot unless you can do that thing, live, unaided, and in front of witnesses.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by Dirlewanger on Monday March 30, 2015 @04:59PM (#9292578)
Because all the smart people are smart enough to see how much of a soul-sucking cluster-fuck politics is. That, and one could argue that if they're put on this earth to live a life of happiness, how could one ever possibly achieve this through a life in politics, knowing what they are getting themselves into?
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by FireBeyond on Monday March 30, 2015 @08:35PM (#9293619)
Ehhh, that's a hand-wringing, self-serving generalization.

"We have the answers. We're just not soulless enough to want to go through (and perhaps change, in the process) the effort to supply them and make them help."

Platitudes rarely change things.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by Dirlewanger on Tuesday March 31, 2015 @01:00PM (#9297905)
Whether you think so or not, personal incentives motivate people in their careers, salary being one of the biggest and weightiest. I'm not saying there aren't that many personal incentives to a life of politics, but at face value isn't exactly the most attractive career path.
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by FireBeyond on Tuesday March 31, 2015 @02:10PM (#9298603)
Politics isn't just about being smart, though. It's about being 'charming' (sometimes for better, sometimes for worse), charismatic, a good communicator (notwithstanding the teams of people behind the scenes to help with this).

I get that it's not everyone's desired path (it's certainly not mine), I just think that saying "many of us are smart enough to have the answers, we just choose not to get involved in politics" is perhaps an... underestimation... of the complexity of some of society's problems.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by spacemanmatt on Monday March 30, 2015 @04:59PM (#9292577)
Some idiots think that's exactly what they did.
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by ianstallings on Monday March 30, 2015 @05:10PM (#9292633)
Well let me clarify what I said above a little more to give you some perspective of where I'm coming from. I'm not making a moral judgement of what you did. I'm making a statement of fact - society will punish you for not following the law. And if you know that up front and you willingly ignore it because you think you're in the right, well don't be surprised when you come into conflict with law enforcement and authority. Take that responsibility on your shoulders, because you chose to act a way that would get you locked up.
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by pyre on Monday March 30, 2015 @08:10PM (#9293522)
> Take that responsibility on your shoulders, because you chose to act a way that would get you locked up.

Would you say this (with a straight face) to Alan Turing in 1952?

"What did you expect having a private homosexual relationship in a society where that is illegal? Just take the chemical castration or the jail sentence. Why are you getting so upset about this?"

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by ianstallings on Tuesday March 31, 2015 @04:14AM (#9294936)
Yeah that totally applies here. Because all situations are alike and all statements apply to every situation. All thoughts that I have can be summed up above. This is simpleton thinking. Sorry I'm not falling for your completely irrelevant shit.
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by jacquesm on Monday March 30, 2015 @08:17PM (#9293542)
Leave it to a hacker to be given two options and picking a third.
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by rayiner on Monday March 30, 2015 @05:40PM (#9292800)
Drug opponents aren't just some religious nuts though. Aside from marijuana, the overwhelming majority of the population supports keeping drugs illegal. Support for legalizing things like cocaine is under 10%. And the homosexuality reference above is a red-herring. Nobody ever broke into someone's house in a state of diminished cognition because of gay sex.
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by jqm on Monday March 30, 2015 @07:34PM (#9293368)
Ya, well given the propaganda this is hardly surprising...

"Nobody ever broke into someone's house in a state of diminished cognition because of gay sex...."

I... wouldn't be too sure about that.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by pyre on Monday March 30, 2015 @08:13PM (#9293529)
> Drug opponents aren't just some religious nuts though.

You're making a comment in the context of the article. All of the parent comments to mine made much broader statements in response to the root comment that was a more general statement. "If you break the law, then you have no right to complain when you go to jail." This is what I was responding to. It touches more than just drug law.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by sliverstorm on Monday March 30, 2015 @09:13PM (#9293779)
"If you break the law, then you have no right to complain when you go to jail." This is what I was responding to.

You can say whatever you like when you are jailed. But I have limited sympathy, which I reserve for true victims of circumstance. You (usually) knew it was illegal when you did it.

It's fine to disagree with the law, to protest it, to seek change. But "doing it anyway and hoping you don't get caught" is not an attempt at civil reform.

BUT you do have a right to object to unreasonable punishment. That's absolutely within your rights. "His sentence is way too long for his crime" is a discussion I'm happy to have.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by pyre on Tuesday March 31, 2015 @03:23AM (#9294805)
Do you have the same lack of sympathy for homosexuals living in repressive societies? If they are not willing to be stoned to death for protesting the (often religion-based) law are they just a bunch of hypocrites?

Even in less repressive societies it was not that uncommon for drawing attention to your homosexual nature to make you a lightning rod for hate crimes. And the reaction of the rest of society wasn't "I'm appalled that such a thing would happen." It was, "What did he expect announcing that he was gay?" In the face of such attitudes, you blame the person being oppressed for not wanting to fling themselves under the bus?

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by realusername on Monday March 30, 2015 @04:52PM (#9292523)
That's mainly an issue with the poverty of the English language, in most languages, they are categories of criminals and they are called differently.
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by adventured on Monday March 30, 2015 @05:40PM (#9292796)
That's blatantly not true. The English language is overflowing with options, at different levels of character or crime, when it comes to describing people.

Murderer, killer, rapist, pedophile, wife beater, convict, criminal, felon, thief, liar, embezzler, con artist, forger, bum, hobo, dishonest, deceitful, traitor, unethical, petty criminal, cheat, scammer, scam artist, pick pocket, snake oil salesman, chiseler, crooked, unfaithful, drunk, addict.

And a thousand more various categories to toss people into (some refer to crimes, some refer to moral character or life situation, and some blend multiple attributes depending on context).

If a person is a rapist, you call them a rapist and not a murderer, and people know the difference. If a person is a convicted thief, you can call them a petty criminal, and nobody would confuse that with being a serial killer.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by realusername on Tuesday March 31, 2015 @03:56AM (#9294889)
Oh yeah sure, there is tons of words to describe criminals, but the problem is the word "criminal" itself works for all of them, if you look at the news and how people speak, you never see those words, you only see "it's a crime to do something" or "this guy is a "criminal".
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by icebraining on Monday March 30, 2015 @04:33PM (#9292371)
I don't think you understand what "moral relativism" means. There was nothing implying such in the post you replied to.

In fact, it's anti-relativist to say that a certain law is immoral.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by antihero on Monday March 30, 2015 @08:13PM (#9293530)
Ah, but we get but one life, and if something you are passionate about is illegal, other than by fighting to change the system, surely given the eternity of death, it makes far more sense to risk prosecution than go forever having never sought ones dreams?

We act as if the government is a legitimate, democratic entity, which of course it is on paper, yet the system is neither pure nor fair, and should we all be prepared to sacrifice everything to gain the simple personal liberty that was taken from us at birth?

Our wrath should be directed not at lawbreakers, but at the lawmakers who cause exceptional and unprecedented amount of harm through their corruption and stubbornness. Almost every problem associated with drugs other than the petty crimes of addicts are due to backwards drug policy which causes deaths due to poor/tainted drugs, alienation and fear for junkies, allows cartels and gangs to control production, and countless collateral damage.

On paper, you may be right, but it takes a callous and short sighted view to presume that any person deemed guilty of a crime are deserving of the punishment landed down to them not by the direct consequences of their actions, but other humans bent on exacting the will of those who's interests are neither rational nor inline with the general population.

It might be a comforting thought to hide in the mentality that if you break no law, you are safe, but life is far to short and precious thing to limit oneself to the life sanctioned for you by the powers that be.

Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by Lawtonfogle on Monday March 30, 2015 @04:36PM (#9292402)
So homosexuality can be considered a heinous crime?
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by pyre on Monday March 30, 2015 @03:49PM (#9292099)
... and sexually deviant ones at that! The worst kind of criminals!
Re:Feds Demand Reddit Identify Users of a Dark-Web Drug Forum by ianstallings on Tuesday March 31, 2015 @04:26AM (#9294982)
I'll take a red herring #3 please. Thanks.