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Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by lmm on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @08:13AM (#9262369)
Because Jabber is awful but too many people were so enthusiastic about its open-source nature that it blinded them to its faults (specifically poor groupchat and a bunch of bad choices about the behaviour when logging in from multiple clients at the same time).

I don't think it's too late. I know the people working on http://matrix.org/ and I trust them to get the technology right. But as we know, popularity depends on a lot more than the technology.

Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by puzzlingcaptcha on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @08:26AM (#9262446)
Arguably people are still trying to "fix" jabber. For example XEP-0280: Message Carbons should help with multiple clients and XEP-0313: Message Archive Management (trunk Prosody, released Gajim, patches for Pidgin) finally bring an archive of messages synchronized between clients. Other extensions like XEP-0138, XEP-0198 or XEP-0237 would help mobile clients (e.g. Conversations for Android).

My only gripe is what took so bloody long. Google Talk debuted 10 years ago and IIRC had an online unified message archive (in gmail) for as long as I remember (2007?). It took 8 years to replicate that feature? "Good enough" ethics at work indeed.

Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by NoGravitas on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @08:36AM (#9262490)
Thanks for the link to matrix.org. I hadn't heard of it, and I wish them success. I don't think XMPP is awful, and I think the reasons for its failure have been political/social/cultural rather than technical, but if Matrix can get more traction, then more power to them.
Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by oddvar on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @11:01AM (#9263360)
Please come ask any questions on https://matrix.org/beta/#/room/#matrix:matrix.org -- or #matrix on freenode which is bridged to the same matrix "room"!

(disclaimer: I work on Matrix)

Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by upofadown on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @08:20AM (#9262416)
What is wrong with jabber group chat?

You don't like the jabber priority based method of dealing with multiple connections. What would be better?

Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by lmm on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @10:34AM (#9263183)
> What is wrong with jabber group chat?

The presumably protocol-level problems are that you can't "upgrade" a two-person conversation to a groupchat, and that a groupchat is an entity in its own right belonging to a particular server, which is something the user really shouldn't have to care about (and also causes reliability issues). And that there's no history.

Beyond that the user experience in every client I've used is terrible: open a dialogue to list available groupchats, manually join one, accept the notification, manually rejoin if you're disconnected. And then you tend to get notifications on every message, rather than just on messages that mention you; purely a client problem, but fundamentally if there are no good clients then it leads me to suspect there's a deeper problem.

Just compare with the groupchat experience in Slack or Skype or heck, AIM.

> You don't like the jabber priority based method of dealing with multiple connections. What would be better?

Send messages to all connected clients for the account, like virtually every other protocol does. And sync history between them. I can accept that that's hard without a centralized server, but it's vital.

Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by upofadown on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @11:01AM (#9263364)
My instance of Ejabber will send to all connected clients in the case where the priorities are identical.
Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by lmm on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @12:04PM (#9263811)
Really? Cool. That's explicitly contrary to the XMPP spec (unless it's changed since I last looked), but good on them for doing the pragmatic thing.
Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by onestone on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @11:29AM (#9263570)
One more thing to dislike about XMPP/Jabber is that it's XML based. Writing products on top of it is unnecessarily verbose and complicated (also due to the bad choices you mentioned). A modern messaging protocol should use JSON.
Re:Message from Facebook: this could be war by userbinator on Wednesday March 25, 2015 @06:51PM (#9266584)
Or something even simpler, like the line-based structure of IRC and MSNP; but you're right, it doesn't need to be XML to be extensible.