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Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by emilsedgh on Thursday March 12, 2015 @05:57PM (#9194217)
Write your whole webapp in WebGL?

Edit: Seriously, how feasible is that? Creating a GUI framework on top of WebGL and creating an abstraction layer (which the original article advises against) would be a huge performance boost comparing to current webpages, wouldn't it?

Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by RaleyField on Thursday March 12, 2015 @08:26PM (#9194971)
WebGL should never have been invented, at least on current architectures. It's a ticking bomb, precisely for the reasons this articles explored - drivers are complex and buggy black boxes that lie in kernel space so ring 0 access is never too far from reach for many exploits. WebGL has a potential to be exploit vector much more severe than what we've seen with other auxiliary web technologies like JavaScript or Java applets. Why not confine web to (mostly) nicely behaved x86 VMs?
Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by mreiland on Thursday March 12, 2015 @09:06PM (#9195114)
Personally I think browsers will become service layers that expose the underlying OS in controlled and specific ways. Not a completely sandbox, but not a free for all either.

We've started creeping that way with a lot of the newer HTML5 stuff, but we have a long way to go.

Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by zurn on Thursday March 12, 2015 @11:53PM (#9195586)
Looking at the bug bounty record from Chrome and Mozilla it seems that fuzzing-for-bounties vulnerability research has largely moved away from WebGL. Must be at least partly due to WebGL reaching a reasonable level of robustness. Bounties may be harder to claim since bugs can be hardware/os/driver ver etc dependent, but still there used to be a lot more WebGL bounties dealt out.
Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by kbenson on Thursday March 12, 2015 @06:57PM (#9194552)
To be fair, I think the takeaway isn't don't make/use abstraction layers, but don't make a one-size-fits-all abstraction and then hide the lower level stuff. A targeted abstraction that correctly supports the domain you are in is still a good thing. That's what the engine developers end up being here, an abstraction on top of this low level API that gives many devs exactly what they want.

Edit: To be clear, I don't think writing a web rendering engine meant to do the same think as the browser on top of WebGL will be faster in any respect, as really the HTML and CSS are just inputs fed into super optimized low level rendering engines. I don't see how JS could compete in that domain.

Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by Rusky on Thursday March 12, 2015 @09:22PM (#9195175)
Reminds me of MIT's Exokernel- make the lower level interfaces as low-level as possible (while still providing security) and let user-level libraries provide various abstractions suited to different use cases.

No file systems, no network protocols, no processes; just a very thin layer that lets userspace implement those if/how it wants to.

Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by lmm on Friday March 13, 2015 @07:58AM (#9196685)
Parts of CSS3 are already faster to implement "by hand" in javascript rather than using the browser's "native" implementation.

HTML/CSS was designed for requirements that don't apply to many modern websites. I would not be surprised if it were possible to implement a rendering engine that performed better for relevant use cases, e.g. perhaps assuming a grid as a first-class part of the layout.

Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by interpol_p on Thursday March 12, 2015 @09:26PM (#9195192)
Wouldn't that kill accessibility, selectable text, being able to call system services (i.e., on OS X hitting cmd+shift+D to get a dictionary definition of a word), any extensions which modify the page hierarchy, automatic translation/localisation, and so on.
Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by zaroth on Friday March 13, 2015 @12:53AM (#9195720)
Exactly; bypass this entire service layer maintained by thousands of engineers and try to do it in Javascript?! I think that's probably not a good idea.
Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by double051 on Thursday March 12, 2015 @06:52PM (#9194520)
Someone did this with their WebGL Terrain demo [0]. You can find a detailed post-mortem in the author's blog [1].

[0] http://zephyrosanemos.com/windstorm/current/live-demo.html

[1] http://zephyrosanemos.com/

Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by wlesieutre on Thursday March 12, 2015 @07:06PM (#9194593)
Take a look at what Flipboard did recently, with their whole mobile site built in JS and canvas

http://engineering.flipboard.com/2015/02/mobile-web/

Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by hellotimmutton on Thursday March 12, 2015 @06:21PM (#9194364)
Except that it would all still be done via a layer of javascript (using asm.js may mitigate this)
Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by chc on Thursday March 12, 2015 @07:45PM (#9194795)
Native JavaScript performance is not generally what makes web apps slow.
Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by nightski on Thursday March 12, 2015 @09:06PM (#9195116)
Just because it isn't the bottleneck today doesn't mean it isn't slow.
Re:Former Nvidia Dev's Thoughts on Vulkan/Mantle by davedx on Thursday March 12, 2015 @06:19PM (#9194356)
It's definitely feasible! A goal for my side project is to give developers a React-like declarative UI with a WebGL rendering backend that abstracts away the graphics programming.