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Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by kstenerud on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @12:50PM (#9139224)
So, a thin client connecting to a virtual machine under some other company's control? No, thanks.

The fact is, computers are plenty fast now, and can handle 90% of peoples' usage patterns (browsing reddit, watching cat videos) with ease. The last thing I want is to have a remote desktop that lags out whenever there's a network hiccup.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by xmonkee on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @02:33PM (#9140033)
I'm sorry, is this a running joke on HN? The first reply is always some bland, obvious attack on whatever is posted. I mean, the fact that a streaming computer in the cloud is sensitive to network hiccups is so obvious to anyone who sees this it's not even a valid criticism.
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by kstenerud on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @03:49PM (#9140633)
Actually, I wasn't the first reply. TBH I was expecting this to be buried since I was so late to the party.

But regardless, my criticism is that slow speed in the hardware is rarely a problem these days. Almost every "slow computer" problem I've diagnosed in recent times (that hasn't been due to McAffee) has in fact just been a slow internet connection or a misconfigured router. When you're not a computer expert, it's hard to know why your Youtube video stutters.

So yes, they will probably get a lot of sign ups with a mantra of "faster", but IMO this isn't solving the actual problem that users tend to have with computer "slowness". In fact, it will only exacerbate it, although that might be good for pushing towards greater bandwidth.

I'm also not too keen on putting even more of my data on someone else's system.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by throwawaymsft on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @03:26PM (#9140470)
Yep, HN is home of the middlebrow dismissal.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5072224

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by ape4 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @04:39PM (#9140957)
Sometimes the obvious criticism is the right one.
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by DTE on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:10PM (#9139375)
General computers are undoubtedly getting fast enough for a lot people. However, hosted computers (VDI, DaaS, etc) can do things that regular computers can't.

I hate having to upgrade a physical computer (which isn't even an option on laptops usually) and with a VM that is no longer a concern. If you need more power (which admittedly not everyone does) its really is a click away.

Transferring large files is also something that is still not easy to do with existing cloud storage options because the model is flipped (both parties have to upload and download over a single connection). By contrast, when using two hosted paperspace machines, you can transfer files nearly instantaneously. Effectively you trade one type of network transfer (the remote desktop image) for another (a big file you might be collaborating on with someone) and in some cases thats a huge win.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by weland on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:27PM (#9139549)
But but but the web is the future!

I see people complaining about the hassles of maintaining a computer. Seriously? It's been like... how many years since basically everyone introduced that "revert to when this was working" state?

And even if it weren't for that, if maintaining a computer is so much of a hassle, how exactly is this supposed to be accessed? With browsers running on the holodeck? "From a consumer-level device, like a tablet"? Yes, I can't wait to use AutoCAD with a pointing device that has a precision of ughhh about my thumb's size.

And let's not get into the whole privacy thing. A 1 TB drive is, what, fifty bucks today -- and people would rather store their files in a datacenter across the ocean?

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by tashoecraft on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:49PM (#9139714)
You’re thinking about how people are currently using their devices instead of thinking about how they will be. You could access your computer from any internet connected device, anywhere.

Hook up your oculus rift to their paperweight and have a full powered computer anywhere (with internet access).

While they are mentioning you can use AutoCad, I'd say that is merely to show that it can handle intensive applications. The majority wants to be able to surf the internet, and with this, you would never need to buy another computer again. For the random times you need to run Photoshop it can do it and will scale up to it, other times it scales down to handle your reddit addiction.

Look at how many people use Dropbox, iCloud, Google drive, etc etc. Everyone is already ok with storing their files in a datacenter. Privacy issues or not, people have accepted it is fact and the high majority already do it. That's not to say it is right, but it's a given that people want convenience over privacy.

Buying a Macbook air costs around 1k. And most people seem to upgrade ever 4-6 years. This costs $10/month. The cost savings are blatant. I know I’m comparing it with a mac and they are overpriced and you could do so much better, blah blah blah.

The fact is that if latency problems can be overcome, there is really no reason beside privacy that one needs to own and maintain their own computer. Rented space that you pay monthly for is cheaper, and will adapt to fit your specific needs. It works much better for a internet connected society to share several supercomputers then for individuals to each own their own.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by walterbell on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:57PM (#9139761)
If data provides competitive advantage, while compute is commoditized, there is no need for a false dichotomy between cloud and local. Future hybrid architecture can fluidly move the line between local and distributed compute, including other-peoples-algorithms, fusing local (secure, private, competitive, licensed) data/algos with public data/algos.

Local storage and local compute continue to fall in cost.

As long as humans remain sensitive to subsecond latency of repeated stimulus, and the speed of light remains unchanged, local user interfaces will offer competititve advantages.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by weland on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @04:17AM (#9143360)
> Future hybrid architecture can fluidly move the line between local and distributed compute, including other-peoples-algorithms, fusing local (secure, private, competitive, licensed) data/algos with public data/algos.

At the risk of sounding like a grumpy graybeard, it's impressive how all of these things have been implemented at least in Plan 9 for almost twenty years now.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by walterbell on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @06:37AM (#9143677)
Thanks for the pointer. Could you recommend any Plan9 docs on these features? Are Plan9 users mostly running on bare-metal or VMs? If the latter, would you recommend VMware, Xen or something else?
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by weland on Thursday March 12, 2015 @11:47AM (#9191497)
Ah, crap, I saw your reply only now :(.

The Plan 9 documentation is pretty good, but 9front's introductory documents ( https://code.google.com/p/plan9front/wiki/fqa ) are probably a little better to get your feet wet with.

> Are Plan9 users mostly running on bare-metal or VMs? If the latter, would you recommend VMware, Xen or something else?

Both, I guess... VirtualBox is the only one I tried it on. Its distributed nature makes it fairly easy to run it on a server and connect to that from a system running Plan 9 from User Space (see http://swtch.com/plan9port/ ), so that you also get a... well, a functional desktop, I guess.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by spc476 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @08:53PM (#9142215)
I can access my computer (computers, actually, all at home) now, from any internet connected device, anywhere. My "laptop" is an iPad with a keyboard, and with that, I can do remotely what I can do locally. It's just as convenient [1], no recurring charge and if the government (or law enforcement) ever becomes interested in my data, I'll have a chance to know about it, since my data resides at my house, not some company half a continent away.

[1] Nearly so---for me, there's no true replacement for an IBM model M keyboard.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by tenser on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @05:46PM (#9141315)
I disagree with the "Dropbox, iCloud, Google drive" thing. Nobody is using them as a platform to work their files on, but more as a quick way of sharing files. not reliable to store or else.
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by wanderingstan on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @06:35PM (#9141563)
Definitely not "nobody". I've had several clients where the dropbox folder was where work got done. For all of my non-git and non-movie projects, dropbox is where the files live and are worked on.

When a friend had his laptop stolen he said that it wasn't a big deal other than the money lost, as 90% of his files were in dropbox or Google drive.

In my world at least, this is the way the wind is blowing.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by weland on Wednesday March 04, 2015 @02:43AM (#9143159)
Oh, were that be true!

I've seen stuff covered under bloody NDAs being carelessly shoved into Dropbox or Google drive.

No one serious about their work is using them as a platform to work their files on, but they are used for that.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by CamperBob2 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @07:35PM (#9141924)
weland, your comment is [dead], not clear why.
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by 6d0debc071 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @04:30PM (#9140908)
> And let's not get into the whole privacy thing. A 1 TB drive is, what, fifty bucks today -- and people would rather store their files in a datacenter across the ocean?

People would rather have convenience of access across their devices. Despite the fact that people tend to have home networks and go around with a wifi-enabled device in their pocket, syncing tools remain atrocious.

That's the pain that dropbox addresses, not the cost of storage.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by pswilson14 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @08:41PM (#9142180)
> And let's not get into the whole privacy thing. A 1 TB drive is, what, fifty bucks today -- and people would rather store their files in a datacenter across the ocean?

Yep. Fact is, HNers are much more concerned with privacy than your average consumer is. Most people care much more about convenience than privacy. I don't really know if that's a good or a bad thing, but it's a truth.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by nine_k on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:23PM (#9139523)
This is not about the cost of hardware or software, it's about the price (and hassle) of maintaining them. Also, it's not about browsing reddit and accessing gmail; it's more about 'real' office applications and the like.

In certain non-tech-savvy environments, such a thing has a very good chance of adoption.

Also, it's a nice venue for renting heavyweight applications (like CAD, graphics, finance, etc) for a limited time, with a full guarantee against violating the policy by users.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by fudged71 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @02:26PM (#9139983)
Not just maintaining, but upgrading too. Imagine never needing to update your computer again from both software and hardware perspective.
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by spc476 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @08:56PM (#9142229)
And having to find out that some obscure feature you were using is now gone, and some other semi-obscure feature you were using is now in a different location and you have to rework your entire workflow yet again. It gets tiresome after twenty years.
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by api on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:44PM (#9139670)
I can easily create a Windows or Linux desktop machine in the cloud at Digital Ocean or Vultr.com for very little money and access it with rdesktop and/or a VPN. Amazon has a slightly more "enterprise" desktop-in-cloud offering that's basically the same idea.
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by DTE on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @03:38PM (#9140551)
A lot of the underlying technology for paperspace certainly exists today and its best to think of what we are doing as providing a layer on top of it all (and polishing the pieces that didn't work so great before):

To give an analogy, cloud storage was definitely around long before dropbox and google drive. It was simple, I uploaded a file to FTP, you opened your FTP client, and we could share files. The reality was that less tech-savvy people might never get past the install step.

What dropbox/google drive/box did was take an existing (and increasingly commodity) offering and wrapped it in a layer that made it accessible to a whole new class of users.

Digital Ocean is amazing and we are shooting for the same simplicity for full desktop computers.

Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by 27182818284 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:20PM (#9139495)
I very much like Browserstack for doing this as it allows for easy testing. I just don't like Browserstack's pricing as no shop I've worked in, and my own company, has ever needed it continuously. Rather, we need sorta pay-as-you-go minutes like cheap cell phones
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by benoliver999 on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @01:05PM (#9139342)
I'm having a weird issue where my modem keeps restarting. I'll fix it, but it's not bad enough to worry about. With paperspace, I get to break into a cold sweat because I can't access my shit!
Re:Paperspace – A full computer you can access from any web ... by angryasian on Tuesday March 03, 2015 @02:05PM (#9139825)
yo dawg I heard you need a computer to use your computer. Jokes aside, tablets/phones are carried with us everywhere and for on the go can accomplish most of what one may do when they are away from a dedicated pc. I can ssh into any one of my computers and do whatever is needed from my phone for the most part.

I'm really curious as to what the main use case would be ? I think this would make big strides in saving licensing costs if it were possible for certain cases where a shared computer may make sense.