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Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by seldo on Friday October 30, 2009 @01:47PM (#912428)
See, the problem here is that she hands out two artificial constraints, and then praises the teams who ignore the constraints.

1. Used a device to measure the tire pressure and materials to build the booth and signs. Did they cost less than $5? Maybe. Did it take less than 2 hours to create the booth, the signs, and perform the services? Unlikely.

2. Well done on finding something you can acquire for free and then sell. However: did they make the reservations at 6pm and then sell them before 8pm? If not, the process of making the money took more than the 2 hours allotted.

3. You had two hours. Instead, you spent 2 hours talking to an advertising company and then a week later you sold 3 minutes of your time. Total time used to make $650: a week. In the real world you can't just discount lead time and idle time; that's a mistake made by a lot of starving contractors.

The point of the puzzle is to work inside the constraints. "Thinking outside the box" is a great skill and all, but basically all these teams are doing is finding creative ways of breaking the rules. It means the puzzle isn't "make the most money in 2 hours with $5", it means the puzzle is "find out how far you can stretch these rules without being disqualified". Points for creativity, sure, but that wasn't the problem.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by mechanical_fish on Friday October 30, 2009 @02:33PM (#912522)
Your argument seems to lean a bit too strongly on unsupported accusations of fraud:

Did it take less than 2 hours to create the booth, the signs, and perform the services? Unlikely.

What, you're saying that a team of college students, on a college campus, which presumably has a fully stocked stationery store within five minutes' walk, can't throw up some hand-scrawled signs in less than (say) 15 minutes for under five bucks?

Yeah, they probably had to already have the tire pump and gauge. I presume that "what do we have in our closets" was an important part of the process of choosing this business plan. ;) And I don't seem to recall anything in the "constraints" about not being allowed to beg or borrow anything, nor any rules about not being allowed to use stuff you already own. This isn't accounting class.

did they make the reservations at 6pm and then sell them before 8pm?

Why not? Remember: They're doing this in parallel, using multiple team members and multiple restaurants. And, given the anecdote ("this works better for restaurants that hand out little buzzers") we're not talking about the sort of reservation that needs to be obtained hours in advance. We're talking about people paying for the privilege of jumping the line and turning a 40-minute wait into a 4-minute wait. You can get through quite a few cycles of that in two hours.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Tichy on Friday October 30, 2009 @03:27PM (#912605)
"And I don't seem to recall anything in the "constraints" about not being allowed to beg or borrow anything, nor any rules about not being allowed to use stuff you already own."

What if "stuff you already own" includes a bank account with 2 million bucks in it? I also thought the solution was a bit dishonest, but then the whole thing should not be taken that serious from the start.

The reservations solution seems even worse, though I am not sure how exactly it works (would it piss off restaurants in the long run, or is it really a valuable service?).

Selling the presentation time seems to be the only valid solution.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by senko on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:24PM (#912701)
If stuff you already own includes a bank account with 2 million bucks in it, and you burn through it in order to excel in one class, that's a lesson in itself. Or, more realistically, if a student had $100 in their pocket and used it as additional funding.

You can easily be in a similar situation in real life. You can get a mortgage on your house, or sell your car, or pawn family heirloom, etc. You can extend your runway (and hopefully increase the possibility or size of success), while ensuring deeper fall if you do fall.

So back to the class, if one group did spend invest their $100 along with the initial $5 seed funding, they'd have to earn more than the other groups to have a comparable return.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by mechanical_fish on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:54PM (#912765)
I wish I could mod this up twice. This is, like, Confucius deep.

If a student weren't allowed to sacrifice their entire life and all of their resources to excel at this one stupid class exercise, it wouldn't be a very good simulation of the entrepreneurial experience, would it?

You know what would have made for a great class? If one of the students had invested $2 million out of pocket to create an additional $100k in two hours. They would have presented that to the class. Everyone would have to agree that, objectively speaking, in dollars and cents, they would have "won". The next question to ask them is: do you feel successful? Have you accomplished whatever it is that you wanted to accomplish, when you signed up for a class on entrepreneurship? And does that make you happy?

Whatever their answer was, it would probably be educational.

For me, a take-home lesson from Startup School was that a lot of extremely talented and successful entrepreneurs are still searching for their answer to this question. They've invented something great, or they've made N millions of dollars, or both, and yet the question persists.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Kadin on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:18PM (#912691)
In what way is offering to check someone's tire pressure and then inflate it for a nominal fee, or a donation, "dishonest"?

The first scenario is one a lot of Jiffy Lube-type garages and auto parts stores like Pep Boys do all the time (although typically with more than just tire pressure, e.g. transmission fluid).

The latter -- asking for donations and letting people pay what they want -- is something the Boy Scouts in my hometown used to do all the time. Free air for your tires, free coffee by the side of the Interstate ... I saw them doing free brake light replacement once. In theory they'd do it for free if someone really couldn't afford it, but in practice people pay what they think the service is worth (or whatever of that they happen to have on hand), so it's a sort of self-defined "sliding scale."

I don't see any misrepresentation there so I don't see how it's inherently dishonest.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Tichy on Friday October 30, 2009 @05:09PM (#912796)
Because the equipment presumably cost more than 5$.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by tjr on Friday October 30, 2009 @05:49PM (#912860)
And so would the clothes they are ostensibly wearing.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Tichy on Friday October 30, 2009 @06:35PM (#912942)
Hm, to set up the experiment properly could become an entertaining experience :-)

Edit: really, though, what is the actual experiment here? If all external aids are allowed, the only lesson left seems to be to think outside of the box.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by mp3jeep01 on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:33PM (#912725)
As far as a restaurant is concerned, why would they really care? It might annoy customers, but as long as the tables are still filling up, I feel the restaurant is more than happy, because they're still making the best of their available resources (tables and wait-staff).

It's a valid point how the artificial constraints are the envelope and the time, because the way she listed the rules was, clock starts when you open the envelope - it's almost a a ploy, or a method of trying to distract someone. Imagine, if you were handed an envelope and were told "there's money inside there", wouldn't you immediately start to wonder "how much?" and you would immediately want to open it. She restricted this thought by applying a 2 hour time constraint, from the time you open the envelope, which almost forced the students to think twice about jumping to the money. Instead, all the groups achieved something without ever really having to open the envelope. I think it was interesting, and a job well done.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by antonovka on Friday October 30, 2009 @07:04PM (#912983)
As far as a restaurant is concerned, why would they really care? It might annoy customers, but as long as the tables are still filling up, I feel the restaurant is more than happy, because they're still making the best of their available resources (tables and wait-staff).

You answered your own question -- to the customer, it's annoying.

... and to the restaurant owner, it discourages walk-in traffic.

It's immoral in that it's dishonest (We have a word for reserving space at the restaurant by claiming to be a party of two, but not being one -- it's called lying). If you wanted to do this in the moral clear, you need to speak to the restaurant owner first, and see if they'll pre-allocate you tables.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by mp3jeep01 on Tuesday November 03, 2009 @04:15PM (#920309)
I never said whether it was moral or not, which it definitely isn't...I was just referring to the students response to the task at hand, which I still believe for what they were assigned was a job well done.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by mariorz on Friday October 30, 2009 @06:24PM (#912924)
>As far as a restaurant is concerned, why would they really care? It might annoy customers, but as long as the tables are still filling up, I feel the restaurant is more than happy, because they're still making the best of their available resources (tables and wait-staff).

It's scalping. It raises the cost of a dinner in the restaurant without additional gains for them. Obviously restaurants would not go this.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by eru on Saturday October 31, 2009 @12:44PM (#913696)
The situation is more complicated.

It raises the monetary costs of dinner for people, who want to pay to avoid waiting. For the normal-waiting patrons the strategy feels like increased congestion. (And they bear the costs.)

Why do restaurants have queues anyway? Why don't they just raise their prizes until supply meets demand? There's more than one scholarly article about this question.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by forensic on Friday October 30, 2009 @09:48PM (#913147)
Why not take ALL the reservations, and then force EVERY customer that wants to eat there to buy them from you?

Because you're fucking up the social contract that restaurants have with their customers.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by randallsquared on Saturday October 31, 2009 @11:37AM (#913619)
I do feel that it was sketchy to ignore the rules the way these teams did. However, the restaurants do not have a contract with their customers. If they want to have a contract with their customers, they can, but calling their expectations of what customers will do a "contract" dilutes the term.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by gottlieb on Monday November 02, 2009 @01:19AM (#916306)
Actually, 'Social Contract' is a term on its own, that is many things to many people, but in general, it is the idea that societies have unspoken rules in order to maintain order. I do not think he is diluting the term, as it (or at least the concept) has been around for quite some time.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by indrax on Sunday November 01, 2009 @03:55PM (#915556)
"seeing the constraints are artificial" does not mean "cheating" or using things outside of the constraints. I don't think the winning teams used more than $5 and 2 hours.

It doesn't take much to see that 2 team-hours is a much bigger asset than the $5, so you're better searching for the best way to use 2 hours, and maybe even ignoring the money.

It took a bit more insight to realize that hard to tap advertising space(and other opportuities) in a university town is a much bigger asset than the team-hours and the money.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by seldo on Friday October 30, 2009 @02:46PM (#912544)
You make valid points. My problem is less the specifics of the individual teams' solutions -- I don't dispute they were very clever and creative solutions -- but rather the impression that the greatest reward went to those who went furthest outside of the rules.

Team 1 were arguably entirely within the rules and made $200, Team 2 went a little outside (unless they were handed the envelope at 6pm) and made a little more, Team 3 ignored the 2-hour stipulation entirely and made $650.

Fundamentally, you're not rewarding creativity at money-making, you're rewarding creativity at rule-breaking.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by varikin on Friday October 30, 2009 @03:08PM (#912580)
If you watch the video, all teams were handed the envelop at the start of the week in class. They were allowed to think an form a business plan as long as they liked. They didn't know how much was in the envelop. Once they opened the envelop, they had 2 hours to make money.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by dkokelley on Friday October 30, 2009 @09:36PM (#913139)
Exactly. They weren't told they must open the envelope. The last team figured this out and (presumably) timed it so that their 2 hours coincided with the 3 minute presentation time.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by raganwald on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:11PM (#912681)
Fundamentally, you're not rewarding creativity at money-making, you're rewarding creativity at rule-breaking.

And there's your insight. If what you want is money, and lots of it, finding creative ways to game the system is how it's done.

I am not lauding that, just pointing it out.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Goladus on Friday October 30, 2009 @10:08PM (#913167)
Actually the lesson was about managing valuable resources, not gaming the system. It was a warning that the system can be distracting and can easily confine your thinking.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by protomyth on Friday October 30, 2009 @06:15PM (#912904)
Maybe on Wall Street, but elsewhere you make a lot of money by creating something people really want, but not generally what they wanted.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by herval on Friday October 30, 2009 @11:31PM (#913231)
elsewhere you make money by making people want things, not trying to predict what they want. People usually don't know what they want anyway...
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by gnaritas on Friday October 30, 2009 @08:13PM (#913068)
> finding creative ways to game the system is how it's done.

And a good way to end a up crook or in jail. Business should be about creating value for both parties involved.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Goladus on Friday October 30, 2009 @10:01PM (#913159)
The lesson was: don't let funding distract you from identifying the most valuable resources available to you. At worst, the cases you mention break the rules in rather insignificant ways. All three scenarios can quite plausibly be done entirely within the rules as defined, even if they didn't quite make it in reality.

Presumably, there were much less creative solutions that also failed to entirely obey all stipulations. It was an exercise, not a contest.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by teeja on Friday October 30, 2009 @06:25PM (#912925)
"she hands out two artificial constraints"

But that's very important. People are constantly working under ... and handing out ... artificial constraints. Getting outside the box is one of the most important lessons. Who could possibly want to communicate but be limited to only 140 characters?

The US spent a million dollars to develop a pen that could write in no-gravity. The Russians used a pencil.

"In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally."

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by jauco on Friday October 30, 2009 @07:20PM (#913003)
The US spent a million dollars to develop a pen that could write in no-gravity. The Russians used a pencil. they didn't, and pencils are useless in space 'cause of the filings floating around and jamming equipment
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by netcan on Friday October 30, 2009 @07:19PM (#913000)
Not using the $5 at all thinking outside the box is. You break a rule that thought existed before you thought about it. It is a constraint on your mind, not your world. This is a space pencil.

Using $10 instead of $5 is not thinking outside the box.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by teeja on Sunday November 01, 2009 @07:15AM (#914988)
For some people finding fault is easier than seeing the point.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by daeken on Friday October 30, 2009 @07:20PM (#913002)
"The US spent a million dollars to develop a pen that could write in no-gravity. The Russians used a pencil."

False: http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by proee on Friday October 30, 2009 @02:31PM (#912515)
Well I understand what you're saying here, but you're over-thinking the problem (like an engineer). The point of the exercise was to get the students excited about entrepreneurialism.

The real world (read Wall Street) has plenty of constraints and people are always gaming the system to make a buck. So in this sense, it's a valid exercise.

Edit: In terms of "gaming the system" I'd like to think of this as leveraging opportunities in the system for a particular gain, not "cheating" the system.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by seldo on Friday October 30, 2009 @02:33PM (#912521)
Yes, because the lesson I really want people who are thinking of working on Wall Street to learn is that they should be trying to cheat the system.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by jrockway on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:46PM (#912748)
Pretty much everyone that cheated the system was rewarded by the keeper of the system. So this sounds like a good lesson to learn. "You don't get ultra-rich by being ethical and honest."
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by wizard_2 on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:07PM (#912676)
With wall street as with most things, there is no "outside the system" everything is the system even if other people don't recognize it. I'll argue outside the rules is still inside the system, and that not all rules are created equal.

On another note, Breaking rules isn't what caused the recent wall street collapse it was a lack of looking ahead at consequences of actions.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by jacobolus on Friday October 30, 2009 @06:18PM (#912912)
Sure, and it's why we need to have both regulation on the front-end, and courts on the back end, to discourage attempts to "game" the "system", so that people's actions which benefit themselves are also beneficial to the society at large.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by forensic on Friday October 30, 2009 @09:51PM (#913151)
"Breaking rules isn't what caused the recent wall street collapse it was a lack of looking ahead at consequences of actions."

Not really. All the people who caused the problem are still employed and still rich. So for those entrepreneurs, they are still succeeding. It is the USA public who are failing at being entrepreneurs, not Wall Street.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by bhousel on Friday October 30, 2009 @11:25PM (#913222)
Do you really think it's reasonable to compare Wall Street to these lemonade-stand kinds of business school assignments?

I'm starting to think there should be a "Godwin's Law" corollary -- as any discussion thread grows, the probability of comparisons to Wall Street approaches 1.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by raquo on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:26PM (#912708)
> The point of the puzzle is to work inside the constraints

The constraint here is (your current resources + $5 + 2 hours), not just the $5 and 2 hours. And the point is to get profitable. It's an entrepreneurship puzzle, not programming puzzle.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by dbz on Sunday November 01, 2009 @11:55AM (#915228)
The problem was 'you are given X amount of seed money and two hours to make as much money as possible.'

The problem was not 'you are given X amount of seed money and two hours to make as much money as possible; however, you must use, and only use, that money while buying the materials you are going to require.'

The problem was not designed to make students money but to show them that there are lots of possibilities in the world for success with hard entrepreneurial thought (they were given four days to think of a plan).

I can be wrong, but I am pretty sure that the rules did not even matter (in the strictest sense). They could spend six dollars on buying signs and a bike pump to make their project a success because the goal of the "problem" was to open the minds of the young entrepreneurs.

If each person did not come up with a brilliant idea, then there would be no harm. However, in mind of the problem, the students were supposed to hear what the other students did to achieve success because the path to achievement is the path to success. -> And that is why people take the class. They want to discover the path to success.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by jdbrew222 on Tuesday November 03, 2009 @09:00PM (#920743)
Arguing that the winning students have "broken the rules" assumes the rules dictated they had to spend all of the money; I didn't see or hear mention a requirement that they spend any or all of it anywhere. It seems to me a set of rules along one dimension of a subject in no way implies corollary sets of rules along any others. For example, if someone told you that you could create any password, but that you could only use three letters of the alphabet (e.g. A, B, and/or C), they haven't said you could not use each one once or more, or not use numbers, or characters, symbols, etc., and they certainly haven't said how long or short the password needs to be, or if you even need to use letters at all, or for that matter that you even needed to create a password; maybe you'd rather spend your time gardening!

To me the three examples (even though they were kind of hokey) didn't so much turn the constraints on their heads as they did make them totally irrelevant... They made it less an issue of the constraints of certain explicit rules, and more about the implicit absence of others.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by j_b_f on Friday October 30, 2009 @03:06PM (#912579)
In the real world there aren't any constraints, but there are plenty of artificial limiters like the $5.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Tichy on Friday October 30, 2009 @03:25PM (#912601)
"Total time used to make $650: a week"

You could use the "idle time" for other stuff.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by dotBen on Friday October 30, 2009 @04:26PM (#912707)
The biggest issue with this one is its unrepeatable... it's a one time deal.

They executed the advertising opportunity, now they have nothing. The other two, issues with their business practices aside, have set up businesses that could continue to operate, grow and scale.

To me that deserves more recognition than a flash-in-the-pan idea.

Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by chrischen on Friday October 30, 2009 @06:36PM (#912944)
But that wasn't what they were asked to do. They weren't asked to develop the best sustainable business model with 2 hours and $5, they were asked to come back with the most money.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by Devilboy on Friday October 30, 2009 @10:46PM (#913194)
Team 4 phoned a rich family member and got him to donate $1000 to their effort.
Re:If you had 5 dollars and 2 hours, how would you make as m... by koolkelso on Friday October 30, 2009 @11:15PM (#913213)
That's one of the main things executives bring to the table in a business: connections.