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Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by fragsworth on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:06PM (#9102752)
What is it about Tumblr that makes it so appealing to radical subcultures? And what is it that makes those subcultures thrive so well in that community?
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by mintplant on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:19PM (#9102862)
Off the top of my head,

* Users can self-organize into hashtags, which are easier to navigate and more cohesive than on Twitter.

* Custom blog designs make it feel more personal / intimate, à la LiveJournal or MySpace.

* Reblogs let content spread quickly. Unlike Twitter, there's more flexibility with what and how long this content is. And unlike retweets, reblogging users can add their own opinions / perspectives to what they share.

* Notes, likes, reblogs, followers... provide a metric for the validation of one's opinions.

* The dashboard and blocking system, plus tools like Missing E, let you narrow down the content you want to see and filter out what you don't.

* Emphasis on images / highly visual content which can quickly disseminate social messages and encourages the liking / sharing reaction -- similar to how image macros or videos can easily go "viral".

* No real name policy, and you can easily change your name / switch your blog URL if need be.

* Strong traction in the various fandom communities, which are subcultures in and of themselves and tend to be more receptive to "radical" ideas, as you put it.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Tumblr user; just interested in how internet communities work.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by pconner on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:37PM (#9102969)
It's also worth noting that misinformation can spread very quickly. It takes no effort to click "reblog" and then forget about a post forever. On other platforms with this weakness (such as Reddit), there is incentive to discredit incorrect information (you get a lot of comment karma if you do this on Reddit), but there is little incentive to do so on tumblr. Any commentary on a post is not inherently tied to future reblogs of the post, and users can edit the content of reblogs to make it look like that content was written by the post's original author.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by striking on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @04:05PM (#9103515)
Additionally: you don't have to read what people say about you. You can turn off notifications for reblogs (yes, reblogs are the only way to comment on something) and in fact, commenting on something that you disagree with will make it still louder. A reblog causes the number of Notes to increase even if you disagree with the content. So there's no good way to express your disapproval of something.

Tumblr is mathematically biased to prevent feedback from the outside. People who use it rarely change their opinions because of this.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by xtrumanx on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @10:52PM (#9105193)
Reddit and HN allows a great way to express your disapproval. I don't believe people change their opinions because of it. They either decide to shut up about their opinions which they know will attract downvotes or they move on.

I employ each tactic on HN and reddit respectively.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by striking on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @08:56PM (#9110897)
I know that I personally have changed my opinion because of downvotes and discussion on HN. I can't say that about every single person who uses HN, but it's far better than what I've seen on Tumblr.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by pnathan on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @04:31PM (#9103669)
The medium is the message, and that is something to consider at length here.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by timdaub on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:15PM (#9102817)
Disclaimer: Only my gf uses tumblr, I don't.

I think it's the bubble-ish environment that gets created not only by your followership but also by the fact that tumblr blogs rarely get feedback from outside.

Once you've build a sufficient followership around you, every thought you express in that bubble gets some how discussed, accepted and developed.

That's why for once tumblr blogs react so harsh to bubble-out-side topics (/r/shittumblrsays) and secondly why I believe it is such a good place for discussion of "radical subcultures".

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by monksy on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:24PM (#9102884)
I was just about to mention the whole filter bubble deal. Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls. Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by chimeracoder on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:55PM (#9103074)
> Reddit on the other hand will subject your posts to criticisms and possible trolls.

Combined with the bandwagon effect of downvotes in many (not all) subreddits, this has the same filter-bubble effect, just by virtue of pushing differently-minded people out (either to seek other subreddits, or off the site altogether).

Just look at /r/politics and you'll see this in full force - with a few exceptions, almost any post expressing a somewhat conservative perspective is downvoted massively.

This is one of the reason Reddit implemented [score hidden], which seems to have helped somewhat, but not entirely.

> Radicals tend not to like people disagreeing with them.

This isn't true only "radicals" - it's true everywhere. And I don't think it's the userbase that's different; it's the structure around it that makes the difference. In other words, the same people will group themselves differently on Tumblr and Reddit, even if they use both sites.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by intortus on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:34PM (#9102950)
Calling these cultures "radical subcultures" is dismissive. What you're seeing is a more complete expression of humanity. Past media have generally filtered out much of the diversity and angst inherent in human lives, and that tradition has been carried forward to varying degrees by many social media networks.

Suicide is everywhere. Trans people are everywhere. Minorities are everywhere. Tumblr just isn't sweeping it under the rug as much as some other sites.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by angersock on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:50PM (#9103043)
Trans people are everywhere.

[citation needed]

EDIT:

Reason I ask is that, when fighting for the cause of minority groups, it doesn't help to make claims that are easily shown to be false--it hurts your credibility, and by association, theirs.

The "x are everywhere" is what, for example, brought us the Iraq War and the TSA and all the rest...just good marketing whipping people up into a frenzy.

EDIT2:

Fine, for the downvoters, here's some citations (because apparently that's too much to ask):

Various studies show a rate of between 0.1-0.5% of people identifying as trans ( http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-we-dont-know-the-siz... ).

A 2011 study by the UCLA Williams Institute found there to be around 700,000 trans people ( http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/census-lgbt-d... ).

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by ohkine on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:06PM (#9103145)
How are you going to cite a study disproving the inherently subjective and hyperbolic definition of 'everywhere'? There is literally nothing in the universe that is 'everywhere'. Can you link an academic paper establishing a quantitative definition of when something can be referred to as being 'everywhere'?
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by angersock on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:15PM (#9103194)
Hydrogen is literally everywhere.

Anyways, I don't think any reasonable person would say that 5 people in 1000 would be enough to support the claim the GP put forth.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by ohkine on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:27PM (#9103262)
I am not a scientist but i don't think hydrogen occupies every single point in space everywhere in the universe

Anyway, if 5 in 1000 (as your own link states, these numbers are inherently difficult to quantify — but i'll go along with it) is not enough to qualify as everywhere, what is? What's your exact limit on everywhere? 1 in 500? 1 in 100? 1 in 10?

The suicide rate in the US is ~12 in 100'000, but you didn't seem to think mentioning it hurt OP's credibility (or, by association, the credibility of people who've committed suicide).

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by intortus on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:48PM (#9103396)
For every randomly sampled population of 1000 humans, you can expect to find at least one or two people who identify as trans (and probably more who are too afraid or uncertain to publicly identify themselves). This is what I mean by everywhere.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by Crito on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:43PM (#9103003)
What isn't everywhere is making fan-art of suicide victims. I think it is fair to assert that there is a distinct subculture here.

Furthermore, I reject the idea that identifying a subculture means that you are dismissing that subculture.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by jzymbaluk on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:06PM (#9103146)
I don't think identifying them as a subculture is the issue, it's the use of the word 'radical' which could come across as dismissive.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by anigbrowl on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:42PM (#9102997)
How is it dismissive? 'Radical subculture' just seems descriptive to me. 'Radical' is synonymous with fundamental, and gender identity definitely seems fundamental to peoples' subjective identity. 'Subculture' just indicates a distinct subset of a larger culture.

The fact that subcultures can be voluntary, whimsical, or ephemeral doesn't mean they have to be, and I certainly don't assume any lack of seriousness or significance to the notion that someone is a member of this or that subculture.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by ohkine on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:09PM (#9103159)
> 'Radical' is synonymous with fundamental

That is not at all what 'radical' means in the context of 'radical sub-culture'. The definition you're looking for is one of:

2. thoroughgoing or extreme, especially as regards change from accepted or traditional forms: a radical change in the policy of a company.

3. favoring drastic political, economic, or social reforms: radical ideas; radical and anarchistic ideologues.

I guess you could argue that trans people fall under definition # 2 from the perspective of many (most?) people, but i also think that 'radical sub-culture' generally implies some kind of conscious action — i don't think that simply existing as a member of a minority makes you inherently 'radical'.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by anigbrowl on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @05:36PM (#9104019)
I'm not looking for a definition at all; I'm perfectly comfortable with the primary definition of 'of or going to the root or origin; fundamental.' I'm not going to dispense with perfectly reasonable vocabulary just because alternative interpretations of a term exist.

If you're not sure what someone means, consider asking them rather than complaining about it. Transitioning to a different gender from one's birth default is (for the time being) a radical change involving extensive medical evaluation, a lifetime drug regimen and ultimately major surgery, to say nothing of the social difficulties.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by DasIch on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:57PM (#9103089)
I'm not a native english speaker but 'radical' to me has negative connotations that 'fundamental' does not.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by Crito on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:04PM (#9103128)
From a native english (of the american variety) viewpoint:

Neither have positive connotations, but "fundamentalist" is worse. Fundamentalism specifically invokes ideas of religious fundamentalism, particularly "religious right" style protestant beliefs.

"Radical" on the other hand is used in a more diverse set of cases. It invokes thoughts of any number of political or religious beliefs that are either outside the mainstream or do not conform with progressive western values as they are traditionally stated.

I don't think either is dismissive. Descriptive, with negative connotations, but being critical is not the same as being dismissive.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by wldcordeiro on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:12PM (#9102787)
Pseudonymity is a big one and the relative lack of censoring (aside from self-censoring to fit into the prevalent group-think.)
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by mrec on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:27PM (#9102904)
Pseudonymity cuts both ways in this context. You couldn't have something like Reddit's /r/suicidewatch without it.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by wldcordeiro on Wednesday February 25, 2015 @01:03PM (#9108302)
I'll grant that the pseudonymity cuts both ways but in that mindset doesn't everything? There's trade-offs to pseudonymity, anonymity and real identities but each has contextual value.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by reubenmorais on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:16PM (#9102823)
I don't know how it came to be this way, but what happens today is that Tumblr (or a good chunk of it) has a very strong culture of acceptance of everyone and everything, and of rallying to shut down people who try to disturb that safe haven. This applies to all sorts of things, from gender issues to things like self-harm and eating disorders like the article mentions. It's one of the very few places on the Internet where someone who identifies with _any_ radical subculture can expect to be accepted instead of ridiculed.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by ohkine on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:16PM (#9102821)
Being trans is not a 'radical subculture'
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by igorgue on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:17PM (#9102835)
I think he's referring to "people who commit suicide virally" not just Transgenders.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by intortus on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:35PM (#9102955)
Which is also not a radical subculture.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by blueflow on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:43PM (#9103002)
This is not true. On tumblr, you can get bubbled with everything you say/do/are. And posts glorifying self-harm and suicide are still happening.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by igorgue on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:04PM (#9103131)
Neither are programmers that don't explain themselves when they say "YOU'RE WRONG. I KNOW WHY BUT I WONT TELL YOU!"

In other words you fit perfectly here :)

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by adamnemecek on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:17PM (#9102838)
killing yourself is a pretty radical solution though.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by joshstrange on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:20PM (#9102863)
And that may be obvious to an adult or someone with a fully developed mind but let's not pretend that when you were this age everything felt 100x more important than it was looking back. This is always going to be the case but it get's better as you get older. At that age being ostracised by classmates and/or parents can feel like the end of the world.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by Domenic_S on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:31PM (#9102931)
Of course, that's the point. When that teen is in their Tumblr bubble, and all the other teens in that bubble say, "yes you're right, this really is the end of the world", is it any surprise that some of them take radical self-harm actions?
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by joshstrange on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:45PM (#9103014)
That's a very good point, still I worry about destroying, infiltratration, censoring these "bubbles". We don't know the stats of kids who were considering (or had resigned themselves to suicide) who then found such a bubble that gave them the support they needed to keep living. What I'm saying is the effort to stop this from happening may have worse consequences than doing nothing or rather working to fix the root issue instead of playing whack-a-mole when it is finally staring us in the face and we can't ignore it any longer (See: War on Drugs).
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by DasIch on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:55PM (#9103435)
Saying it gets better may work for a little bullying. Telling a transgender teen that "it gets better" is an obvious lie.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by joshstrange on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @04:19PM (#9103601)
How about saying "It gets better" to a gay/lesbian kid? (Real question, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it)
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by DasIch on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @04:36PM (#9103697)
At least in the western world, I think that's significantly less of a problem as much more progress has been made for example when it comes to marriage or representation in the media. It also appears that "peak resistance" has been overcome and further progress is inevitable.

Even so it has to be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone can escape school, escaping a country, state or just city for a more accepting environment is a lot more difficult.

Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by joshstrange on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @04:42PM (#9103723)
While I 100% agree that gays/lesbians have it "easier" than trans I wouldn't come close to acting like it's no longer an issue. Trans rights still have quite a way to go but I really do believe that it will get better. It's not going to happen overnight but I do believe it will happen so I don't consider it "an obvious lie". Thanks for the response!
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by timdaub on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:17PM (#9102847)
I think he never intended to say that, still his statement right. Tumblr as well as like reddit are good discussion platforms for subcultures.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by Torgo on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @03:03PM (#9103124)
The site is a first-class citizen on mobile, mobile is a primary platform for many less-privileged classes. Same with Twitter.
Re:Inside Tumblr’s teen suicide epidemic by mullingitover on Tuesday February 24, 2015 @02:56PM (#9103083)
When you have a publishing platform that's wide open and unmoderated, two things always dominate: activism and porn.