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Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by drzaiusapelord on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:08AM (#9027511)
Weren't we all applauding some startup that had a douche-bagy "We dont support IE" message on their site and everyone here was so excited about it. Now that the bell is tolling for Firefox, its a different story, eh?

There's been this largely ridiculous "revenge of the geeks" after the IE6 days. Now we've fed so much fuel into that fire, that casually telling people to use different browsers is the norm. I'm not saying I told you so, but.. I told you so.

Instead of focusing on your customers' needs, we just ran with what's popular. That's always going to be a losing strategy.

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by matthewmacleod on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @11:40AM (#9028235)
Weren't we all applauding some startup that had a douche-bagy "We dont support IE" message on their site and everyone here was so excited about it. Now that the bell is tolling for Firefox, its a different story, eh?

You're not really giving the whole story here.

A lot of people slapped a 'Don't use IE, it's old and broken message" on their sites because it was old and broken. Generally this didn't show for newer versions – though you're right in that a minor number of 'douch-baggy' sites did.

It was a significant and in some cases crippling workload to support end-of-life browsers that were lacking features such as e.g. transparent image support. Telling users to upgrade was a perfectly sensible thing to do in these cases – if it was suitable message for your customer base.

These days the situation is very different. There's almost definitely no way that the Play store doesn't work on Firefox. It's almost certainly being deliberately excluded from accessing the Play store for what can only be described as malicious reasons.

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by scholia on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @02:01PM (#9029133)
Exactly right. The big difference is that IE6 was a very old and limited browser -- in fact, Microsoft didn't want people to use it either. It's not the same as blocking a current and very capable browser.

UPDATE: Update 9:05 a.m. PT: Google has informed VentureBeat that the issue experienced by Firefox users on Android is a bug, and a fix will be issued “very soon.” http://venturebeat.com/2015/02/10/google-play-no-longer-supp...

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by drzaiusapelord on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @02:18PM (#9029254)
The example I'm discussing was on HN just a few months ago. So when IE11 was active. It wasn't "We arent compatible with IE6" its "Fuck off IE users lol" which is a terrible attitude and one applauded here.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by jimktrains2 on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:15AM (#9027562)
“Anyone who slaps a ‘this page is best viewed with Browser X’ label on a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web, when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another computer, another word processor, or another network.” – Tim Berners-Lee (in Technology Review, July 1996)
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by johnkpush on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @12:37PM (#9028597)
It's browser vendors that are bearing the torch of interoperability and standards compliance. Unfortunately, most vendors are companies with their own agenda. To add to that, all companies and people interpret standards differently. Given this, it's no wonder we don't see consistent api implementation and behaviors between browsers.

The aftermath of all of this falls on the developer's shoulders, which is why so many hours are poured into getting a modern webapp to work across all browsers. Resources are limited, and at some point, developers have to throw their hands up and resign from having support across all browsers.

When you start using a seemingly mature HTML5 api, and find that it doesn't work as expected in all browsers, what recourse does one have? Should we continue to stifle innovation while we wait for the browser vendor to reach compliance? History shows you're going to be waiting for a while, or for ever.

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by dblohm7 on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @01:29PM (#9028911)
"When you start using a seemingly mature HTML5 api, and find that it doesn't work as expected in all browsers, what recourse does one have?"

File bugs. Chromium and Firefox are not black boxes.

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by jfoster on Wednesday February 11, 2015 @07:01AM (#9032381)
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by ndesaulniers on Wednesday February 11, 2015 @07:21PM (#9036592)
or here's an opportunity to start contributing to open source!
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by jimktrains2 on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @03:12PM (#9029581)
One option is to ensure that functionality you're relying on can fall back if the feature isn't enabled. While that's not the hip-and-cool thing to do, it is a very valid option and doesn't take considerable time if it's a goal from the outset.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by kenbellows on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:27AM (#9027644)
There is potentially a critical difference here. The "We don't support IE" mini-movement was a reaction to Microsoft's refusal to use the web standards that every other major browser supported. In this case, it appears to me (admittedly without research) that Google's motivations must be different, and two possibilities spring to mind: (1) Google doesn't like the competition from Firefox or (2) the Play store uses non-standard features not supported by Firefox's overwhelmingly standards compliant browser. If either of these is the case, we've got a very different situation, potentially one in which Google has begun to play the part of Microsoft, implementing and using their own non-standard features, even if it's in a less intrusive and less inconvenient way.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by drzaiusapelord on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:36AM (#9027720)
Not really. Since IE10 a lot of the standards argument has been bunk and I've run into a lot of sites lately that tell me, "Oh this html5 feature is only on Chrome, so use that" when I use Firefox. Or if I'm using IE11 for work, suddenly I hit a site that either tells me to get lost or warns me that I'll get a better experience with Chrome.

The problem is we let web culture degenerate into a "my browser or the highway" attitude thanks to the fuel uber-geeks poured on the IE6 fire. Now we're constantly reaping this negativity. I won't even go into the issues I've had with Opera, AOSP browser, dolphin, midori, and others. This "my browser or the highway" attitude is still very strong and we need to stop pretending its a legitimate way to manage the web. No wonder people are clamoring for walled-garden app stores and dumbed down apps. Maybe they're sick of the geek-led browser wars that flare up every so often. Google knows this and is using this to its advantage with its long-range plan to lock people onto its proprietary Android-based services. Now here's another reason to not use Firefox and to stick with Chrome.

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by _lce0 on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @01:19PM (#9028849)
> Google knows this and is using this to its advantage with its long-range plan to lock people onto its proprietary Android-based services. Now here's another reason to not use Firefox and to stick with Chrome.

Based on your argument, I think it's time for the opposite.. stick with Firefox

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by matthewmacleod on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @11:42AM (#9028242)
I hate to repeat this, but it's just not true. I see far, far less "use this browser" enforcement that used to be prevalent on the web. Yes – some advanced demos are Chrome- or FireFox– only in particular, but using these as a yardstick to measure the web in general is broken.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by scholia on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @02:11PM (#9029208)
> a reaction to Microsoft's refusal to use the web > standards that every other major browser supported

Take your points, but in fact, Microsoft didn't refuse to support web standards.

IE6 was more standards-compliant than Netscape when it came out. The main problem was that Microsoft stopped developing browsers (for complicated reasons that must include the US anti-trust suits). That put it years behind in standards support.

Then when it started to catch up (with new browsers in Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8), it couldn't move users on to later more standards-compliant browsers, even though it tried.

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by holri on Wednesday February 11, 2015 @09:44AM (#9033074)
Please elaborate why the anti trust suits did MS stop from developing a standards compliant browser.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by scholia on Thursday February 12, 2015 @05:26PM (#9041800)
Never said they did.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by tuxone on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:57AM (#9027918)
(3) Firefox for Android misses true Intent Filters support, which causes annoying experience for the average user.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by makomk on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @12:44PM (#9028636)
Might have to try it then. Google Chrome for Android's handling of intents is really annoying. Sometimes I have to tell it to open a link in the browser rather than the associated app three or more times, as it redirects between different pages or domains and prompts again for each one.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by adrusi on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @12:49PM (#9028660)
I've never had issues with intents on Firefox for android, including in the play store. If there are issues, then users of Firefox chose to take them on. Who knows, maybe they value their software freedoms more than the ability to open a link in a different app.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by dblohm7 on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @01:31PM (#9028933)
If there is a problem, then file a bug! It's an open source browser!
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by JoeAltmaier on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:35AM (#9027716)
'every other' turned into one or two. But anyway.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by higherpurpose on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:20AM (#9027597)
There were good reasons for not supporting IE because they weren't adhering to standards. That's not the case with Firefox. That was closer to saying "we shouldn't support Chrome because it breaks standards" than "we shouldn't support Firefox because it has small market share".

The main reason for not supporting IE was its anti-standards stance, not its market share. I think that's a perfectly valid reason, just like saying "I don't want to support Chrome because of its promotion of DRM in browsers".

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by nulagrithom on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:27AM (#9027650)
Exactly. Internet Explorer was very far behind and failed to adhere to standards. This sentiment largely disappeared with the release of IE10, and I've seen more people defend IE11 than anything else.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by scholia on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @03:40PM (#9029750)
See my comment above https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9029208

It's simply not true that IE wasn't adhering to standards, or had an "anti-standards stance". It is true that IE6 didn't support standards that were developed after it was released, but that's also true of every program released (until it's updated).

Not saying Microsoft didn't make mistakes, but that wasn't one of them ;-)

Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by ocdtrekkie on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:16AM (#9027570)
Yup. Holding a ten-year grudge against Microsoft is going to bite people in the end.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by TheRealDunkirk on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @10:39AM (#9027739)
I'm still nursing a 20-year grudge against them, yet find myself gainfully employed doing .NET application development again. There's being observantly pessimistic, and there's tilting at windmills.
Re:Google Play Store: Browsing with Firefox is no longer sup... by chris_wot on Tuesday February 10, 2015 @11:47PM (#9031598)
The whole point behind not supporting IE was because it was broken. Firefox is largely not broken. That's the difference.