The reason this is a deeply interesting topic is because there are exceptionally strong claims to property rights made in the US and that same property was almost entirely all stolen in the recent past.

And because one gets such inconsistencies as claiming the theft occurred in the "mists of time" when, by definition, the constitution itself is further back in those same mists of time.

And the logically absurd (and patently false claims) that one can't locate a parcel's original possessor therefore some arbitrary purchaser down an illicit chain can make nearly unlimited exclusive claim to owning it.

And of course endless use of tu quoque.

So the authors intention is an utterly uninteresting red herring. It is a remarkable opportunity for thoughtful people to examine their own inconsistent views. The rest will simply shut their ears and convince themselves their is no reason for contemplation.

Was there some sort of native American title office that the European settlers missed? Was every square mile of what would become the United States occupied, used, and accounted for?

The English were brutal, no doubt about it, but the French, for one, lived for a couple of centuries side by side with many native peoples in frontier areas without forcefully taking land and treating the natives as a population of people to be dealt with on an equal footing. There was plenty of room for everyone and huge areas of unclaimed, un-worked, un-owned land in every meaningful sense of the word.

And indeed those tribes very much had land title offices, legal system and even constitutions echoing the US document.[2]

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Civilized_Tribes

[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee#Treaties_and_governmen...

Actually, here in Scotland there is a fairly widespread recognition (apart, perhaps, from some large landowners) that a lot of land was acquired by rather dubious means. I think this provides a fairly decent justification for the "right to roam" we have over most land.

The author's point was that the common narrative of European settlers colonizing an empty continent, alternatively European colonists bringing civilization to wild, barren lands has to be extended with European settlers bringing mass extermination to the indigenous population, through many different means.

Basically, what makes this particular story of human savagery, out of all of them, crucial right now? If it's high time for Americans to acknowledge that the US is built on someone else's land, is it also time for everyone else in every other country to do the same thing? Is there any country whose borders don't include territory that used to belong to people of some other ethnicity or culture?

Are we even sure we understand how to determine who really owns what piece of land? I'm genuinely asking. It seems very basic, but I don't know how to answer it.

Please note, I'm not trying to claim that any particular instance of violence was alright because everybody else was being violent too. Without a doubt, it was appalling, atrocious savagery, and will hopefully never be repeated. It's just that, in the field of appalling, atrocious savagery, there's a lot of competition.

That would strengthen the OP's position by anyone who has even a basic understand of European history.

When you actually look into it you see: a) the utterly brutal dispossession and extermination of a weak and technologically primitive existing population b) the callous and self-serving enslavation of vast numbers of people c) vicious and destructive interference in weak countries across the 20th and 21st century to facilitate the wholesale theft of natural resources.

I'm not saying that the rest of the world doesn't have its own sins, or that any other country would have been particularly better if they had the opportunities that America has had, but please, get down off your high horse. The ignorance and self-infatuation of American people is why they are so widely hated.

It is selectively historicizing something to justify your final sentence, which is an apologia for hating Americans.

If you hate Americans, maybe you shouldn't post on a website full of Americans.

And don't say you don't hate Americans. There is no reason to present a bunch of completely slanted history and just be like, "oh yeah, this is why other people hate Americans, but they are ignorant because they are selectively historicizing it." That is clearly not your attitude or your point.

By the way,

- Natural resources do not belong to whoever happens to live near them but simply ignores them. They belong to the person who extracts them. Property rights are acquired by use, not by where you were born or by your nationality.

- There were many cases of peaceful co-habitation with Native Americans and many cases of Native Americans initiating force against the settlers. Probably these categories account for a lot more than the category of outright brutality against natives, though that did happen some, particularly under Andrew Jackson (which is relatively late in our history!).

- It is worth recognizing that Americas founders were adamant about maintaining neutrality, so foreign interference is in many ways un-American. Moreover, it is worth recognizing that America has a moral right to interfere in foreign countries that threaten force against its citizens or their property, as does any country.

Wow, you must be a legal scholar. So let's say one day you come home to find that I've demolished your house and started drilling for oil. You're cool with that, I'm sure.

There were many cases of peaceful co-habitation with Native Americans and many cases of Native Americans initiating force against the settlers.

Good job at whitewashing. Let's say one day you come home and I'm camped on your front lawn. You tell me to get off so I beat you and take your living room as punishment for your "bad behaviour." A few weeks later you get angry and try and force me out again. This time I kill your wife and kids and give you the basement as a "reservation." Shouldn't have initiated force against me, right?

America has a moral right to interfere in foreign countries that threaten force against its citizens

This is just so laughable. If you think that the history of American 20th and 21st century foreign policy is about self-protection then... well, I guess you could say all those democratically elected leaders of third world countries were sort of threatening American citizens right? Threatening them with fair prices for natural resources maybe? Maybe if you consider all resources everywhere property of America, then anyone who refuses to sell you them for next to nothing and suppress their own citizenry for kickbacks is an aggressor...

I've been to America and the majority of the people I met - and this is in the nicer cities - were like big, stupid puppies, who thought America was the greatest country, and were completely confused when you said, well, no, actually... As I've said elsewhere there's no excuse for doing the wrong thing. Americans love to play the moral high card but they brutally annexed their country from a weak and vulnerable pre-existing population with much deeper historical and spiritual ties to the land. Then they've proceeded to do some of the nastiest things of the last few hundred years. Heaven forbid they be forced to admit any of that. The onus is on them though. The moral corruption of never acknowledging one's foundational guilt is inexorable.

I find this to be just a self-enforcing attitude (which one may get a chance to feel when entering a USA consulate).

Some decades ago, when there was a big difference in the quality of life between USA and "the rest of the world" (thanks to WW2 outcome), it made sense to claim such a thing. But things change, you know?

Most of the world would want America to fucking live them alone.

All I'm asking is, would it be any major abberration, considering human history? Or would it just be: after atrocious violence and savagery, land briefly under the control of vague human entity X now seems to be under the control of vague human entity Y, episode #37,093,840?

Moreover, if there was official recognition of what really happened, even now much could be done to redress the original injustice and give these people some closure. Instead, schoolchildren are taught a sanitized version of American history which really adds insult to injury, from the point of view of the surviving natives.

So? In a day, a modern celebrity can influence people with a "speed and thoroughness" that would be totally unthinkable to a Jewish celebrity 2000+ years ago.

... But that's due to technology, not due to the differences between Kim Kardashian and Jesus.

In 500 years, the bloody Annexation of Sol is going to be exceptionally speedy and thorough too, because it's easier to be speedy and thorough when you've got warp-drives and teleporters.

The scale of the forced displacements is literately continent scale! Its probably the biggest settler colonization in history. Compare with the colonization of South America, where the Spaniards aimed to use the existing population for labour, and thus gave them some rights and allowed them stay. Or Africa, where the Colonial powers basically conquered for labor and not for land to settle.

I don't know that the pattern of forced displacement has ever occurred on this scale, and with so high compression. Usually when people are forced from their lands, there are some crappier lands somewhere else they go to. From the map this obviously was not what happened. The tribes where forced into extremely small areas over the course of just a hundred years.

Well, except perhaps the debate over that native american reservation that the federal government is currently seizing to hand over to a coal mining company.

I can tell you that I wouldn't expect to stand on my doorstep, facing the men with guns, saying, "ah, ah, ah, I own this land!" and have them turn away.

We do horrible things to other people, no doubt about it. Even worse, this specific moment in history isn't unique. So it goes.

The scale and the speed were different. When a group of people moves in occupying part of the land, gradually over a long period is very different to one just moves in, kills all and takes everything.

It's interesting to me how we finally got rid of Original Sin, but now have replaced this with other, atheistic forms of this, like trying to make our children feel guilty about Native Americans and Slavery. I personally think this is the best way to increase tensions.

Time and time again people like to derail important discussions about the nature of Native American genocide and slavery by claiming this. Acknowledging this history is not about making people feel guilty, it is about understanding how those people are treated today and how their treatment is an extension of this history. The nature of racism and its history and legacy should not be trumped because it makes someone somewhere feel bad.

The best way to increase tensions is to ignore the past and continue to let that past influence how people are treated in the present, both socially and politically.

However, the US - like Russia, didn't colonize other "nations" it appears to have mostly completely supplanted them in the areas it grew into.

Of course, this is only of historical interest, but as a wise man once wrote: "Who controls the past controls the future".

And as far as more modern immigrants? Sorry, people knowingly chose to immigrate to a land which has been stolen. Again, there's a choice to do the right thing or not, and people are choosing to do the wrong thing. People should take responsibility, full stop.

The history and deeds of the native tribes of America have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the current invading population. No non-native American has the moral right to even allude to it, let alone point fingers and try and force moral equivocations. It's the worst form of hypocrisy.