Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by martinald on Saturday January 03, 2015 @02:55AM
(#8830207)
Interesting. I'm not sure about the best approach to the 'medical' marijuana side when there is no actual prescribing guidelines that I can see. How can you crack down on it when there are no real rules?
I'm surprised that black market dealers still exist. Surely, medical marijuana is so easy to get that if you care about the price you get a card and go there? If not, go to one of the legal stores.
Why are the black market guys still in business? You very rarely see black market alcohol, for example.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by yodsanklai on Saturday January 03, 2015 @04:22AM
(#8830321)
In my opinion, medical cannabis was just an excuse to decriminalise cannabis. Maybe it helps with very specific conditions better than alternative drugs, but certainly not for all the ailments it's supposed to cure.
Now it's actually getting legalised, all the "medical" thing makes even less sense anymore. It needs to be rethought from the start.
What I think is sad with all this is that we don't have a meaningful and intelligent debate about the place of recreational drugs in society, and why they should be legalised (or not). Instead of that, we hear hypocritical arguments about cannabis being a "medicine" that can benefit to pretty much anyone. That, or the other camp telling us that users will end up with schizophrenia or other chronic impairments.
There should be some middle ground where people are rightly informed about the pros and cons of taking such drugs...
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by lotsofmangos on Saturday January 03, 2015 @05:06AM
(#8830401)
In my opinion, medical cannabis was just an excuse to decriminalise cannabis.
I know doctors and medical researchers who would definitely disagree with you on that. There are some very common things like long term chronic pain management, where all of the major drugs have serious downsides, so it is good to have marijuana there as an available option.
For what it's worth, I don't doubt that the medical marijuana (MMJ) businesses do some good, but it's also been an open secret for years that just about any ailment, ranging from a sore back to chronic migraines, no pun intended, can get you a pot purchasing card.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by chinpokomon on Saturday January 03, 2015 @03:24AM
(#8830242)
I can speak second hand about MMJ. I never sought to get a card myself, and I won't now that it is legal for recreational use in WA, but I witnessed first hand how it tremendously helped a friend of mine who suffers from Fibromyalgia. Before she acquired her card, she was so disabled from the pain that she would sometimes require a wheelchair and need help feeding herself because she couldn't hold utensils.
Now my observation is clearly not scientific, this wasn't a study with controls, but while I was initially skeptical of the therapeutic value as compared with other available drug options, other prescription medication did not have the same effect. She stopped taking MMJ for a short while and her symptoms returned.
I also cannot rule out that there is some placebo effect going on, but if it is a placebo, so what? In this one instance, I have a hard time believing that it hasn't helped. Her quality of life is substantially better for MMJ.
This is also why I never considered taking advantage of the system. It might have been possible for me to find some condition that would have allowed me to acquire an MMJ card of my own, so that I could purchase Marijuana for recreational consumption. What I didn't want though, was to harm a program that was successful in treating her illness nor that of anyone else for whom it helps.
I really hope that the "crackdown" doesn't adversely affect those who need it.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by millstone on Saturday January 03, 2015 @03:45AM
(#8830265)
Here in CA, the system is already targeted at recreational users at the expense of those who really need it: the places you obtain it, the faux medical exams, the strains, etc. Legitimate medical practitioners are being turned off from MMJ because of the culture.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by lotsofmangos on Saturday January 03, 2015 @05:13AM
(#8830414)
I know the people who were running one of the cannabis trials for multiple sclerosis in the UK. Gaming that would have been pretty hard as you have to be referred within the NHS as a long term MS sufferer.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by egypturnash on Saturday January 03, 2015 @04:34AM
(#8830338)
Seriously I think the biggest reason people keep gaming the medical marijuana system here in Seattle is that there are next to no stores open. The liquor board is really dragging its feet on issuing permits.
I live in the University District. There are like three places I could get "medical" marijuana in walking distance. But if I want to buy it without going through the hassle of keeping up the pretense of "back pain" I have to trek halfway across the city.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by ollysb on Saturday January 03, 2015 @04:36AM
(#8830344)
The only way for legal sales to disrupt the existing blackmarket is to allow the new legal stores to compete on equal terms: very low taxes and allow them to deliver. Once the legal sales have reached a sufficient level of penetration then they can consider how to increase revenue and tighten the licensing(although I'm not sure why delivery is not allowed in the first place).
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by jrapdx3 on Saturday January 03, 2015 @02:56AM
(#8830209)
Interestingly, the article points to "medical marijuana" as the big hurdle to overcome if regulation of recreational cannabis use can succeed. Naturally it leads to questions about exactly what ailments is marijuana known to be a remedy for?
A quick review of the cannabis literature shows potential therapeutic utility for cannabis-derived compounds, particularly in conditions like depression, psychosis and anxiety. So far, it's all "promising" and no conclusions have emerged.
IOW, definite indications are not established. Risks of adverse effects are not delineated but must be known in order to prescribe responsibly. In addition, lack of product standardization makes safe use murky.
Living here in Oregon where medical marijuana has been available for a long time, the therapeutic boundaries appear practically nonexistent. It means with very little effort just about anyone can get the "card". Indeed, most users need not bother since it's easily available and laws are seldom enforced.
Of course, "decriminalization" was the reason the recent Oregon ballot measure passed with a wide majority. A good idea, but it calls into question the merit of enshrining cannabis as a "drug" when its credentials as a therapeutic agent are still in doubt.
I'd advocate phasing out "medical marijuana", and those who believe it is effective can easily purchase it from licensed outlets, just like any other user. That's not different than many drugs sold without prescription, like analgesics, gastric acid-reducers, etc.
BTW, many OTC drugs are not particularly cheap, but because they are OTC insurance won't cover the costs. Exactly parallel to buying marijuana retail even if some people might argue it's for a medicinal use.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by sgarman on Saturday January 03, 2015 @03:09AM
(#8830225)
Cannabis is currently a schedule 1 drug making it very difficult to legally do medical studies. With that said I have read of a wide variety of medical applications outside of the therapeutic ones often talked about. NORML has a great site covering a lot of the studies:
http://norml.org/component/zoo/category/recent-research-on-m...
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by anigbrowl on Saturday January 03, 2015 @03:09AM
(#8830226)
Well, strains that are high in CBD (rather than THC) tend to be good for pain management and appetite stimulation. IIRC the two best use cases for it are for people going through chemotherapy and people with glaucoma. I agree that the standards of medical necessity are so low as to be meaningless, and whoile there seems to be inexorable movement towards full legalization, the bullshit medical rationalizations slow that down and IMHO make it harder to get funding for more rigorous clinical studies on its efficacy for pain management and other likely conditions.
Re:Medical Marijuana a Challenge for Legal Pot States
by forrestthewoods on Saturday January 03, 2015 @03:08AM
(#8830223)
Medical marijuana is primarily used as a front for legalized marijuana. You can go to a doctor and pay ~$50 upfront before getting prescribed your card for some reason that doesn't even really matter. It's pretty silly.
I'm surprised that black market dealers still exist. Surely, medical marijuana is so easy to get that if you care about the price you get a card and go there? If not, go to one of the legal stores.
Why are the black market guys still in business? You very rarely see black market alcohol, for example.
Washington State put a ton of regulations in place with a lot of taxes, so it's much cheaper to ignore the legal stores and go medical or unregulated.
Also, the black market offers a lot of services the legal market can't -- like delivery.
Now it's actually getting legalised, all the "medical" thing makes even less sense anymore. It needs to be rethought from the start.
What I think is sad with all this is that we don't have a meaningful and intelligent debate about the place of recreational drugs in society, and why they should be legalised (or not). Instead of that, we hear hypocritical arguments about cannabis being a "medicine" that can benefit to pretty much anyone. That, or the other camp telling us that users will end up with schizophrenia or other chronic impairments.
There should be some middle ground where people are rightly informed about the pros and cons of taking such drugs...
I know doctors and medical researchers who would definitely disagree with you on that. There are some very common things like long term chronic pain management, where all of the major drugs have serious downsides, so it is good to have marijuana there as an available option.
For what it's worth, I don't doubt that the medical marijuana (MMJ) businesses do some good, but it's also been an open secret for years that just about any ailment, ranging from a sore back to chronic migraines, no pun intended, can get you a pot purchasing card.
Now my observation is clearly not scientific, this wasn't a study with controls, but while I was initially skeptical of the therapeutic value as compared with other available drug options, other prescription medication did not have the same effect. She stopped taking MMJ for a short while and her symptoms returned.
I also cannot rule out that there is some placebo effect going on, but if it is a placebo, so what? In this one instance, I have a hard time believing that it hasn't helped. Her quality of life is substantially better for MMJ.
This is also why I never considered taking advantage of the system. It might have been possible for me to find some condition that would have allowed me to acquire an MMJ card of my own, so that I could purchase Marijuana for recreational consumption. What I didn't want though, was to harm a program that was successful in treating her illness nor that of anyone else for whom it helps.
I really hope that the "crackdown" doesn't adversely affect those who need it.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/10/california-medic... is an instructive (and fun) read.
"Sobriety."
"I see. And your symptoms?"
"I'm not high all the time."
http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2011/04/15
"Sounds like you need some medical marijuana."
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1585#comic
-----
More seriously, have there been any implementations of medical marijuana anywhere that weren't trivially gamed for recreational uses?
I live in the University District. There are like three places I could get "medical" marijuana in walking distance. But if I want to buy it without going through the hassle of keeping up the pretense of "back pain" I have to trek halfway across the city.
A quick review of the cannabis literature shows potential therapeutic utility for cannabis-derived compounds, particularly in conditions like depression, psychosis and anxiety. So far, it's all "promising" and no conclusions have emerged.
IOW, definite indications are not established. Risks of adverse effects are not delineated but must be known in order to prescribe responsibly. In addition, lack of product standardization makes safe use murky.
Living here in Oregon where medical marijuana has been available for a long time, the therapeutic boundaries appear practically nonexistent. It means with very little effort just about anyone can get the "card". Indeed, most users need not bother since it's easily available and laws are seldom enforced.
Of course, "decriminalization" was the reason the recent Oregon ballot measure passed with a wide majority. A good idea, but it calls into question the merit of enshrining cannabis as a "drug" when its credentials as a therapeutic agent are still in doubt.
I'd advocate phasing out "medical marijuana", and those who believe it is effective can easily purchase it from licensed outlets, just like any other user. That's not different than many drugs sold without prescription, like analgesics, gastric acid-reducers, etc.
BTW, many OTC drugs are not particularly cheap, but because they are OTC insurance won't cover the costs. Exactly parallel to buying marijuana retail even if some people might argue it's for a medicinal use.