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Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by swombat on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @04:07PM (#882054)
I think people who think Google Wave doesn't get it will be eating their words later, much like those who thought the same thing about the iPod (most of the geek communities turned their nose up at that too).

I can see instant usefulness to Wave. I have my invite, and one of my colleagues does too. I can't wait for my other cofounders to get access so that we can use it for real work. Email really just sucks in so many ways.

Edit: It's worth adding that a lot of articles and pundits seem to be comparing Wave and, say, Twitter. Wave is nothing like Twitter, nor does it aim to be anything like Twitter. No, we're not going to start using Wave instead of Twitter, Friendfeed, Facebook, etc... because that's not what it's for! Wave might end up being useful for social communications too, but the most important pain points that it resolves are business pains, problems that people encounter when they're trying to work together remotely.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by axod on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @05:45PM (#882213)
>> "I think people who think Google Wave doesn't get it will be eating their words later, much like those who thought the same thing about the iPod (most of the geek communities turned their nose up at that too)."

I'd somewhat bet the opposite. Geeks will be raving about wave and how it's realtime, XMPP federated, technically impressive etc etc, whilst the average person on the street will have no clue what it does and why they need it.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by swombat on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @06:18PM (#882262)
Haven't you noticed though? It's precisely all the geeks who don't see the point of it. That's practically a success factor for this kind of technology, I'd say.

The average geek is equipped with many methods of communication and collaboration... So of course this just seems like a marginal improvement. The average normal person, though, uses mostly email, and so will find this client exceptionally useful. The average person will just see (perhaps not even explicitly) that it makes it easier to add people to ongoing email conversations, and that it's easy to attach files to the conversation, and that it's easier to branch off sub-conversations, etc.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by axod on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @06:28PM (#882274)
>> "Haven't you noticed though? It's precisely all the geeks who don't see the point of it. That's practically a success factor for this kind of technology, I'd say."

So how does the average person find out about wave - let alone learn all the terminology, how to use it, etc etc. We're only hearing the geeks feedback so far, because the rest of the world doesn't know/care it exists. I'd be interested if you have some examples of communication forms that geeks didn't start using first - email,sms,twitter, were all pretty geek lead...

I think the average person won't see how this solves any problems they have - facebook,twitter,email,sms all work pretty well for communication.

I can see your point about teams working together - business collaboration - I can see it making some inroads there.

Lots of the things I hear wave does are technically fun, but in practice, horrible design choices - showing text as people type it was the norm 20 years ago. Since then, we've pretty much all agreed it's irritating and not really useful.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by roc on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @07:47PM (#882405)
"So how does the average person find out about wave"

Google replaces GMail's plumbing with Wave and the inherent abilities of Wave are introduced as GMail features. Robots, conversation splitting, collaboration, etc.

It's the only sane way to approach it, really.

And I have no idea why people keep harping on live typing. Google announced that there was going to be a way to turn it off about 5 minutes after they pulled the drape off Wave itself.

It's almost certainly a feature destined for the dustbin. As such, it's an utter red herring. Complaining about it is perhaps more pointless than the "it's too complicated" meme.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by axod on Thursday October 15, 2009 @05:55AM (#883068)
I agree with the strategy, although gmail is still reasonably small fry compared with yahoo + hotmail.

People probably keep harping on about live typing because it made no sense to include it. It's a gimmick rather than a useful feature.

Also it is too complicated for most people. You can't just ignore arguments and call them a 'meme' :)

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by swombat on Thursday October 15, 2009 @03:31AM (#882944)
I'd be interested if you have some examples of communication forms that geeks didn't start using first - email,sms,twitter, were all pretty geek lead...

Facebook wasn't. Or MySpace. I found out about FB from non-geek friends. I was shocked.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by twopoint718 on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @11:04PM (#882669)
I think the answer to how the average person finds out about Wave is that because this is something that Google is doing, it will be reported on in the popular press; much like Twitter.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by icey on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @06:06PM (#882248)
So the question is whether or not it remains a niche tool like RSS (which is to say only used by the technically savvy) or does it get abstracted into a transparent technology and used as a leverage tool like AJAX?
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by davidalln on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @10:23PM (#882612)
40 years ago I'm sure email seemed like a "niche tool" used by only the technical savvy. I'm not saying that Wave will replace (or even that it should replace) email, but I do think that, especially as a younger, more technically savvy generation grows up (I'd gander that less than 10% of the students at my high school don't actively use Facebook), and as that younger generation enters the workforce, technologies like this will rise up and become a popular standard. Whether or not it will be Wave remains to be seen.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by Teulon on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @08:21PM (#882447)
Hasn't the point always been for 'wave' to become a transparent technology? Google has their interface, but anyone can create one or just put up a different Wave server.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by steve19 on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @08:43PM (#882486)
I don't think RSS is a niche. What major email client does not have RSS integration? What major websites do not offer RSS feeds?
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by icey on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @08:54PM (#882508)
I don't know about you, but the only people I know who actually use RSS are more technically advanced than 90% of the internet users I meet.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by rooshdi on Thursday October 15, 2009 @05:05AM (#883026)
RSS is too complicated and constrained for the "average joe" on the street, which is why most "non-techies" I know just Google wherever they want to surf. Google speaks a language most people understand, while RSS still sounds like useless jibber jabber to these casual users.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by DomesticMouse on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @11:11PM (#882674)
I'm seeing more interest in my Wave user group from business folks than geeks. Kinda the opposite to what I expected.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by icey on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @05:05PM (#882167)
I think people are too caught up in the confusing UI. Wave is going to kill a lot of companies once it starts catching on. It may require some better front-end tools for Wave to get there, but it will happen. The way collaboration works in wave is really good; it's just a little unpolished right now.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by andrerobot on Thursday October 15, 2009 @12:06AM (#882751)
Yeah maybe if they dumb it down a little to be more similar to Gmail it would really catch on.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by dflock on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @05:44PM (#882212)
I think you're correct - but I think that almost everyone is missing the point and just talking about the client. The current Google supplied client is optional, and will change. What's more, other clients will emerge that do different things, are simpler, more complex or just different. You could - and I'm sure someone probably will - write email-like clients, or even IMAP-Wave gateways which enable you to use Outlook/Evolution/Whatever and participate in waves via traditional email paradigms. Clients that looks like twitter, pidgin backends (hey - it's just XMPP, this is probably already there), clients that just lifeblog everything you do into your personal life-stream wave (tsunami?) Wave is a platform. It would be pretty amazing if that platforms killer app. happened to also be the very first client anyone wrote for it. I would imagine that a lot of conversation like interactions that we now have by other means - placing orders, technical support, supply chain management, etc... will become waves, but I don't know what will be the killer app.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by dkarl on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @06:16PM (#882257)
Unless every client is just as free-form and chaotic as Google Wave, each kind of client will have a different community and a different communications style. There's not much to get excited about until one of those yet-to-be-invented (and presumably more structured, less free-form) paradigms actually emerges and catches on.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by noelchurchill on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @05:20PM (#882184)
I think wave could kill twitter. The with:public option is already just like looking at the twitter stream.

Wave is very open for anyone to make their own clients to use wave in whatever way they see fit. With the right client, Wave could be a much more powerful twitter.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by kyro on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @10:44PM (#882644)
Can you then explain what it's for? Genuinely curious here. I consider myself relatively open minded and understanding of new web concepts, but I just don't quite get it with Wave.
Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by swombat on Thursday October 15, 2009 @03:37AM (#882950)
Sure.

Wave is for solving the key problems with email in a corporate environment:

1) It's hard to track (will presumably offer an API or be trackable by widgets)

2) It's hard to use it to collaborate on a piece of text to be sent out to someone else or included in a document (which is what it's used for half the time...)

3) When adding new people, it's hard to ensure that they have a clear view of the beginning of the conversation - often they get a garbled, over-indented mess in reverse chronological order, that's hard to follow.

4) When adding new people, often they get dropped again if someone replies to all from the wrong email.

5) It's hard to keep multiple conversation branches going. If you're collaborating with 5 people (hardly extraordinary) on a 2-page document, and they each have 1 distinct comment, and each of these comments requires a brief exchange (back and forth 3 times, let's say) before it's sorted out, you'll end up with a fairly messy conversation once it's all flattened out.

6) It's hard to attach files (particularly large or numerous files). And when you add extra people to the conversation, they don't see those files anymore. If there were multiple files sent at different time, sending all of them to the new participant is a pain in the ass.

7) When discussing, say, a document, correcting even a small typo requires a full email instead of being able to just dive in and correct the typo.

There are no doubt more, but this is what I can come up with fresh out of bed.

Re:Google Wave: too complicated for its own good by joeyo on Wednesday October 14, 2009 @11:00PM (#882666)
I almost wonder if "Google Everything" would have been a better name for it--some aspects of just about every social website could be replaced with waves. It overlaps a lot with the functionality of Facebook, Twitter and 4chan just to name a few. It also overlaps strongly with services such as email, newsgroups and instant messaging.

I don't know if wave will ultimately be compelling enough to draw people away from those other sites and services, but I don't think it will be a complete flop (I'm looking at you, VRML).