News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by lkrubner on Saturday December 13, 2014 @01:21AM (#8744398)
The opening paragraph of this article is a stunning victory for anecdote in its long war against data. Reading this, you are left with an impression exactly opposite reality:

"Since Kerry Devine, 32, and her friends began having children, she has noticed a stark difference between her female friends in Auburn, Wash., where she lives, and those in England and Cyprus, where she grew up. In the United States, they almost all stopped working outside the home, at least until their children were in school. Yet, she says, she can’t think of a friend in Europe who left work after her children were born."

First of all, let's remember that men are also leaving the workforce, and the decline of men in the workforce is a much older trend than women leaving the workforce:

https://familyinequality.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/wlfp1.j...

As to Europe, please see here:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.TLF.CACT.FE.ZS

Let's start with overall female participation rates in the workforce:

France: 51%

Germany: 54%

United Kingdom: 56%

USA:57%

By this measure, the USA rate seems a little elevated, but not dramatically so.

Europe is catching up, but has not yet caught up:

http://www.thefinancialist.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/fe...

A few Scandinavian countries exceed the USA rate, but most of Europe lags behind:

https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/files/images/women/Gene...

But what about mothers with kids? There the reality is the opposite of the one suggested by the quoted paragraph. Women with kids are more likely to work in the USA than in Europe. Look at the high rates of women with kids in the USA in this graph:

http://www1.eeoc.gov/eeoc/meetings/archive/4-17-07/boushey.h...

It is true the peak of the trend was many years ago, but the numbers are still high. The USA has a very high level of single moms, much more so than in Europe, and most of these women need to work, so the number of women with kids working will probably remain elevated in the USA.

Figure 1 shows that in Germany the rate remains below the USA level until the children are 10 years old:

http://www.public.asu.edu/~abick/bick_childcare.pdf

This is the pattern in most of Europe: as children get older, the percent of mothers who work approaches USA rates, but if we talk about mothers of young children, the USA has the highest participation rates in the world. Again, this is driven by single moms, and the lack of welfare benefits in the USA, compared to the richer social safety nets in Europe.

This article offers some insights about the USA:

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Articles/2012/us-working-mot...

"In recent years, more mothers of young children have entered the paid labor force. While the share of mothers with children under age 6 in the labor force has risen sharply, the rate for all working-age adults has remained relatively flat. The recent economic recession, the steady decline in men's real earnings, the growth in single-mother families, and the increase in women's educational levels are some of the factors likely contributing to the growth in the proportion of mothers of young children in the workforce."

Also here, scroll way down to the graphs:

http://www.frdb.org/upload/file/paper_delboca.pdf

Again, you can see that the Scandinavian countries are ahead of the USA with both fertility and women working, thanks to more supportive policies for women, but most European countries are behind the USA rates.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by santacluster on Saturday December 13, 2014 @03:50AM (#8744645)
There is no "Europe", especially not in these matters that are so strongly, if not almost exclusively, determined by cultural and economic factors in sovereign nations.

Please stop doing that, comparing the USA to some fictional country called Europe to prove a point. I agree with many of your arguments, but where the author of this piece is generalizing based on anecdotes, you're generalizing based on stats. And opportunistically picking and mixing stats from different countries on top of that.

For someone who likes to throw around stats and pretend to make a scientifically based argument, what does a conclusion like "most European countries are behind the USA" even mean? Europe has countries the size of a few football fields. It has large, thinly populated countries, small, densely populated countries and everything in between.

I would really appreciate it of people would stop using this fictional Europe for their ideological political arguments about the USA.

Full disclosure: I happen to be from a country in Europe that has higher participation rates for women than the US, is not Scandinavian, doesn't have particularly strong supportive policies (better than the US, but that isn't saying much) and on top of that: despite these stats women in this country are leaving the labor force in large numbers when they get kids, which particularly shows up in a lack of women in senior leadership positions. These things vary wildly per country and culture.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by coldtea on Saturday December 13, 2014 @05:44AM (#8744851)
>Please stop doing that, comparing the USA to some fictional country called Europe to prove a point.

There IS a place called the European Union, which tries to unify things in those regards though. Sure, the European Union is not Europe, but that's like saying "America is not the US, it's the whole continent" (that is, correct, but nobody cares, people will still use the name).

>Europe has countries the size of a few football fields. It has large, thinly populated countries, small, densely populated countries and everything in between.

So, sort of like the states? New Hampshire is not really the size or population of Texas or California. And not all of them have the same rates and policies.

Besides, he did gave listings and talked individually about different european countries.

It's not that big of a stretch to then check the aggregate, and speak of how "Europe" is doing. The European Comission does exactly this all the time.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by Dewie on Saturday December 13, 2014 @08:28AM (#8745136)
> Sure, the European Union is not Europe, but that's like saying "America is not the US, it's the whole continent" (that is, correct, but nobody cares, people will still use the name).

I think that is a bad comparison. When anyone says "America", they almost always mean "USA". There are also a lot fewer cases in which most people want to talk about the Americas as a whole, and each continent tends to be denoted by South- and North-. "Europe", on the other hand, seems to always refer to the whole continent (people can disagree about where the Easternmost point is, but other than that the usage of the word is very crisp). I don't see how conflating the EU and Europe is appropriate at all, and I haven't seen much of it.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by coldtea on Saturday December 13, 2014 @03:12PM (#8746226)
>I think that is a bad comparison. When anyone says "America", they almost always mean "USA". There are also a lot fewer cases in which most people want to talk about the Americas as a whole

Perhaps that's a bias from being in the USA? In Latin America it's far more often to want to talk about Americas as a whole (or about North/South America as a whole).

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by Dewie on Sunday December 14, 2014 @07:15AM (#8748118)
> Perhaps that's a bias from being in the USA?

That can't be the case for me.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by stefanix on Saturday December 13, 2014 @07:05AM (#8745001)
You are asking an interesting question. What utility does it have to compare such large and diverse populations. Without further data like standard deviation of compared units this may be point-less.

It's also not just Europe. The USA is similarly non-uniform. Coasts and Bible-Belt differ significantly, arguably more that certain European countries.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by mpweiher on Saturday December 13, 2014 @03:25AM (#8744603)
Not sure what you're on about, the side-bar has the data about female labor force participation that you claim is missing (2000-2013):

74% - 69% US

71% - 79% Germany

69% - 76% France

etc.

So what we have is not anecdote vs. data, but conflicting data sets.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by nostromo on Saturday December 13, 2014 @02:20AM (#8744511)
Exactly. The percent of everyone in America aged 25-54 in the workforce has dropped since 2000, not just women, which is the crux of the article. (http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet)

The article is titled:

> Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind

But should be titled:

> Why Americans Are Leaving Jobs Behind

And then it could be a single sentence article:

> Because the economy sucks.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by comrh on Saturday December 13, 2014 @02:45AM (#8744550)
You're right but I also think it might be a companion article to: The Rise of Men Who Don’t Work, and What They Do Instead

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/upshot/the-rise-of-men-who...

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by radicalbyte on Saturday December 13, 2014 @02:34AM (#8744531)
The Netherlands are 2nd highest. It's not just scandinavian countries:

http://www.cbs.nl/en-GB/menu/themas/arbeid-sociale-zekerheid...

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by Someone on Saturday December 13, 2014 @07:59AM (#8745092)
The Netherlands also are an outlier as far as part time work goes. 75% of working women work part time (http://www.dutchdailynews.com/netherlands-has-the-most-part-...).
Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by Svip on Saturday December 13, 2014 @02:59AM (#8744571)
Oh well, I always get Danish and Dutch confused. And I'm Danish!

The Netherlands is also pretty Scandinavian for a Benelux country.

Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by zobzu on Saturday December 13, 2014 @04:39AM (#8744723)
yep articles like that are lies after lies, in the hope of making hits (which.. works out!).
Re:Why U.S. Women Are Leaving Jobs Behind by threeaway on Saturday December 13, 2014 @08:22AM (#8745124)

    The opening paragraph of this article is a stunning 
    victory for anecdote in its long war against data
Mark one up for hyperbole followed up by a misinterpretation of the article. USA! USA!