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Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by kelseyhightower on Monday December 08, 2014 @03:23AM (#8715486)
Disclosure: CoreOS employee; Kubernetes contributor.

After reading the title I was a bit tempted to call BS since I think Kubernetes should have the rights to "The first Datacenter OS" tagline[1]. However, after reading up on the project details at https://mesosphere.com/learn I can see how Mesosphere came to the conclusion of being a DCOS, if not necessarily the first. Mesosphere goes a bit further than Kubernetes and offers a solution to the storage problem and attempts to address other "userland" concerns by shipping Apache Spark, Cassandra, Kafka, and Hadoop. So maybe it would be more accurate to call this a datacenter distro on top of the Kubernetes kernel?

Regardless, I think the concept of a datacenter OS will be the key to commoditizing IaaS providers and leveling the playing field in terms of features and usability for those who have not given up on the dream of running a "private" cloud.

Why will the DCOS work where others have failed?

Current solutions aimed at taming the datacenter operate at the machine/VM level, which exposes the OS for each machine, and completely punts on the application. Guess who gets to stitch it all back together? A DCOS is designed to manage applications directly, commonly via application containers, which means we can treat the OS running on the underlying machines like firmware and limit our interactions to basic updates and minimal configuration -- think CoreOS.

What about PaaS?

That's a topic worthy of a lengthy discussion, but I think it boils down to the lack of control found in most PaaS platforms[2]. In order for a PaaS offering to be successful it must make opinionated decisions about how to deploy and run applications; a bit too inflexible for most people. On the other hand, a DCOS seems to hit the sweet spot between IaaS and PaaS.

[1] I'm sure you can make an argument for Joyent's SmartDataCenter (https://www.joyent.com/private-cloud) as well. [2] Deis (http://deis.io/overview) attempts to address this issue.

Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by 23david on Monday December 08, 2014 @02:19PM (#8718421)
Curious why you wouldn't consider Openstack to be a Datacenter OS? :-)
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by Zariel on Monday December 08, 2014 @04:10AM (#8715589)
Isn't it running ontop of the Mesos kernel, which has been around for longer than Kubernetes?
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by presspot on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:32AM (#8716561)
A bit of the history:

The Mesosphere DCOS is built around the Apache Mesos kernel

The Mesos kernel was developed at UC Berkeley in 2009 [1].

Spark was written as a sample app on top of it [2].

Ben Hindman and his colleagues at the UC Berkeley AmpLab had always envisioned Mesos as a kernel inside of a full-blown operating system [3]. They finally brought it to market.

[1] https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/nsdi11/tech/full_papers/...

[2] "We have implemented Mesos in 10,000 lines of C++. The system scales to 50,000 (emulated) nodes and uses ZooKeeper for fault tolerance. To evaluate Mesos, we have ported three cluster computing systems to run over it: Hadoop, MPI, and the Torque batch scheduler. To validate our hypothesis that specialized frameworks provide value over general ones, we have also built a new framework on top of Mesos called Spark, optimized for iterative jobs where a dataset is reused in many parallel operations, and shown that Spark can outperform Hadoop by 10x in iterative machine learning workloads." ibid.

[3] http://people.csail.mit.edu/matei/papers/2011/hotcloud_datac...

Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by Zariel on Monday December 08, 2014 @04:38PM (#8719360)
Yep, also had input from Google around the time there were deploying (or building) their new scheduler to replace Borg, Omega.
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by presspot on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:34AM (#8716574)
So, yes, Mesos predates Kubernetes by many years.
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by kelseyhightower on Monday December 08, 2014 @05:18AM (#8715771)
That was my first question as well, but there must be a reason why Kubernetes was brought in.
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by kozyraki on Monday December 08, 2014 @11:11AM (#8717144)
My view on this the following: Mesos is similar to the kernel of a conventional operating system (e.g. Linux). It provides very basic services (scheduling, interrupts, device management, etc) and a syscall API. But nobody wants to program to this API. Hence you need libc or other similar libraries to provide a higher level API that programmers use to interact with the kernel. Kubernetes, Marathon, Aurora, etc are such libraries, each optimizing for a different class of applications and providing different functionality. The two (the kernel and the libraries) need each other.
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by boulos on Monday December 08, 2014 @12:08PM (#8717494)
I see what you're saying Christos, but I think I'd prefer "runtime" over library (library sounds like it's just a little convenience).
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by kozyraki on Monday December 08, 2014 @10:09PM (#8720762)
Sure, pthreads and other thread libraries that include a lot of runtime functionality would probably be a better analogy.
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by presspot on Monday December 08, 2014 @09:38AM (#8716597)
I see Kubernetes as more of a programming model, not an operating system. It provides a way to express services and have them scheduled onto a datacenter. The rocket-science of how you schedule those workloads and optimize them in the same partition as other workloads is what you need a DCOS for.

In the Mesosphere world, Kubernetes is a "datacenter service" which is installed on your datacenter so that you can run Kubernetes workloads. You might also want to install DEIS to run DEIS-organized workloads. Or Spark, for Spark workloads... and so on -- all multitenant in the cluster. This is what the DCOS is uniquely good at, and why it qualifies as a true operating system.

Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by fsaintjacques on Monday December 08, 2014 @10:06AM (#8716749)
I didn't see any reference to storage solution, am I misreading?
Re:Mesosphere Announces First Data Center OS and $36M in Fun... by andyidsinga on Monday December 08, 2014 @01:16PM (#8718008)
I was just thinking the same thing ...how are block and object storage supported under HDFS etc.