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Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by pjmlp on Monday December 01, 2014 @11:59AM (#8682128)
> Is amazon committing illegal acts in Germany?

No, but they are on the borderline of what is acceptable in German society.

> One of the articles you linked to states that Amazon is already paying higher than average wages.

I have not read them, as I was just trying to fetch some English related information for the HN audience.

The information I have, from memory, is from German newspapers.

The whole situation worked as follows:

- offer a job to people at the job center (quite nice)

- since they are at job center, the job cannot be refused unless for special reasons

- pay them the bare minimum, almost lower than the unemployment fund after taxes

- have them work extra-hours without compensation

- let them go, re-hire from the endless pool at job center

Also the guys doing deliveries, are at multiple levels of sub-contractors. Have a wage that barely pays the fuel and monthly expenses, with a variable bonus attached to the amount of successful deliveries per day.

Since they are not to blame for people not being at home, they try to deliver the packages to just about anyone in the neighbourhood, thus leaving a information to collect at place X, not always the post office.

There was an undercover story about this a couple of years ago, done by a famous German reporter, Günter Wallraff.

Maybe this situation today is different and has improved a lot, but this was how it used to be from the newspapers info.

Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by prostoalex on Monday December 01, 2014 @02:31PM (#8683117)
Two of these are government-created problems, if the government would like to solve them, they can rewrite the rules

> since they are at job center, the job cannot be refused unless for special reasons

> pay them the bare minimum, almost lower than the unemployment fund after taxes

This one is illegal, with enough proof it should be easy to fix in courts

> have them work extra-hours without compensation

And two of these seem to be neutral on society

> offer a job to people at the job center (quite nice)

> let them go, re-hire from the endless pool at job center

Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by pjmlp on Monday December 01, 2014 @03:05PM (#8683395)
> This one is illegal, with enough proof it should be easy to fix in courts

Since when? Do you live in Germany?

Do you remember the issues a few years ago with Hartz-IV and recruiting people for "Spargelstechen", as Hartz-IV was better than the salary being offered?

Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by pktgen on Monday December 01, 2014 @02:38PM (#8683173)
> - have them work extra-hours without compensation

I'm not familiar with German labor laws, but I know this is (typically) illegal in the US and I suspect that can't be different in other first world countries. Is it?

Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by pjmlp on Monday December 01, 2014 @02:56PM (#8683320)
There is a limit under which it is allowed.
Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by pktgen on Monday December 01, 2014 @03:39PM (#8683624)
Hmm, I may have misunderstood. When you say "without compensation," do you mean they're still getting their normal hourly wage but without any additional compensation (overtime) for working the extra hours? Or $0 compensation at all for working that time? I was originally under the impression you meant $0 compensation at all, but I suspect I'm misunderstanding now.
Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by pjmlp on Monday December 01, 2014 @04:15PM (#8683852)
Yes, that is what was being aired in the press. Courtesy of Google translate

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=...

If you know German,

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/gesetzesluecke-...

Re:Amazon Reveals the Robots at the Heart of Its Cyber Monda... by mlrtime on Monday December 01, 2014 @02:34PM (#8683146)
It seems as if English is not your first language. You make some good points but do not assume that people are down-voting you because they don't agree with your opinions.