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Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by ryandvm on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @01:41PM (#8631759)
Bear with me, I've got a hypothetical for you.

If absolutely, rock-solid research came out that concluded that climate change was not anthropogenic, would we still be talking about reversing it? That is, say it's all due to solar cycles or cosmic smog or whatever. And assume that we'd still be under the specter of all the same nasty repercussions - would we be talking about reversing it or coping with it?

And if it turns out that the global conversation would shift towards adjustment strategies - then isn't that what we should be talking about now?

Because as a practical matter - reversing a 200 year old problem in the making is probably about as difficult as reversing a natural phenomenon.

Of course another angle is forget the origin of the problem altogether and focus on costs. If it's going to cost 90 trillion to undo it all or 40 trillion to adjust - what should we do? Keep in mind that at this scale, money roughly translates to human lives (foreign aid, healthcare, education, etc).

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by Afforess on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @01:56PM (#8631855)
Your hypothetical is a good one, and I would answer: yes we should still try to reverse it. Rising seas threaten coastal areas over all the globe. Changes in rainfall patterns will create new deserts (see the current California drought). A warmer earth is an overall negative change. Some places might be better off (permafrost in Canada, Siberia might be farmable) but the net change is negative.

We change the climate in local regions all the time. Dams, coastal walls, etc all change the world to suit our needs. I see no reason the global climate is different.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by NoPiece on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:00PM (#8631886)
Is a colder Earth better, or is it 20th century Earth the perfect temperature?
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by logfromblammo on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:40PM (#8632145)
My amateur-level knowledge of geological history suggests that a warmer, wetter, and higher-CO2 atmosphere--such as that found in the Carboniferous Period prior to the rainforest collapse or the Middle Miocene prior to its extinction event--would support greater total biomass and a wider variety of viable species than current conditions.

In other words, the climate change that everyone is frantically trying to reverse would probably be better for the biosphere, and for humanity in general. For specific humans with well-established property interests on or near the oceanic coasts, the current climate trends will be disastrous.

If every organism on the planet had a vote, Earth would overwhelmingly be in favor of more anthropogenic CO2 emission. Of course, only the humans understand the potential downsides, such as temperature-triggered methane clathrate decomposition that may have already been a contributing factor for two planetary extinction events, including the Permian-Triassic (the worst).

~Obviously, the solution is to ignore the CO2, dig up all the methane hydrates, and turn them into useful plastics before the temperate rise causes them to melt.~

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by atratus on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @09:50PM (#8634159)
Such conditions emerged over very large timespans in which life had plenty of time to evolve in response. What you are talking about is the same changes but over a few hundred years...this would be absolutely DISASTROUS for life. Rising CO2 is already acidifying the oceans and we've already seen symptoms such as coral bleaching.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by Afforess on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:12PM (#8631983)
That is a hard question to answer, because my answer is biased (I live now, so I am biased to think now/recent-past is the best climate). But I do think the 19th/20th century was the most ideal climate possible for the human race. I would speculate it is no coincidence that the industrial revolution occurred so quickly, in part due to a verdant climate.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by VLM on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:25PM (#8632060)
Google for anthropic bias or anthropic principle

Climate changing slower than humans give birth or starve, plus lack of petroleum age mobility, will result in this bias.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by TeMPOraL on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:11PM (#8631976)
The one we like the most is better. We're used to a specific kind of climate for the last few thousand years, so let's try going back to that first.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by VLM on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:33PM (#8632109)
Which one, 11000 years ago there were two miles of ice where I sit typing this. That kinda sucked for the locals. Left some cool hiking terrain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age

This caused the death of millions when Genghis Kahn's men needed to immigrate somewhere due to climate change. We'll probably kill a similar percentage of various cities in the next big climate change.

The climate never has been constant and there is no "the official correct climate".

Trying to force people is likely to result in war which is likely to, overall, kill more people than letting it do its thing. We're running out of stuff to economically burn anyway. Its not like we're only 0.0001% burned up or even 10% burned up. Soon enough, talking about rationing something we no longer have access to burn will be quite pointless. Voluntarily saving some for later is likely to have a pretty decent economic impact. Social engineering by modification of tax law is likely to save more centimeters of ocean than any strictly environmental or behavioral regs.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by TeMPOraL on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:43PM (#8632157)
Well, you force people exactly by the means you describe.

Then again I think that maybe it's a time for an "official climate" because it's the decentralized decision making that's screwing as over wrt/ anthropogenic climate change. Someone has to make those regulations and enforce them.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by anigbrowl on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:00PM (#8631890)
If our evidence was so rock solid we'd probably also have a better quantitative understanding of the extent to which we can alter the climate, and I'd expect energies to be divided about equally between adaptation and mitigation (eg by deliberately increasing cloud cover). Adaptation is so complex and expensive (since many cities are located on flood plains or in coastal regions for economic reasons) that delaying the full impact in order to implement adaptive measures would probably be economically justifiable.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by mrfusion on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:09PM (#8631958)
But do we even know the repercussions? I'm still not convinced it's all bad? Aren't the studies about all forests turning into the deserts the most speculative? Couldn't it just as easily produce more green spaces and habitable areas? (apologies in advance if this offends anyone)
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by TeMPOraL on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:13PM (#8631989)
We need more studies, of course, but we can't wait too long hoping that we'll luck our way out of the predicted negative consequences; we need to act on incomplete information.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by 0xffff2 on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @01:58PM (#8631873)
>Would we be talking about reversing or coping with it?

I think the answer is an absolutely unequivocal "reversing it". Regardless of the underlying cause, I don't think that anyone would argue that the potential effects of global warming are anything less than catastrophic. In that light, it only makes sense to talk about adjusting to climate change when you've decided that preventing it in the first place is an entirely impossible task.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by bprieto on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:31PM (#8632097)
I do. Maybe I'm just one and every other person on Earth thinks otherwise, but I just can't see the "catastrophic" unless it is stated in relation to how radical this climate change is and in what direction.

Many more people die now from cold weather than from warm weather. So maybe a little rise in temperature is a good thing. And historic evidence shows that warmer climate meant more productive crops in the middle ages and in the roman empire.

Maybe I am wrong, but I would need more solid evidence of the catastrophic consequences of climate change before sentencing millions of people to death because we choose to spend money fighting climate change instead of fighting malaria or improving access to clean water.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by danielweber on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:15PM (#8631996)
I think lots of people don't think global warming would be "catastrophic." Otherwise it would completely steamroll over any arguments against deploying more nuclear power.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by TeMPOraL on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:37PM (#8632129)
It's a typical human short-sightedness/availability heuristic. People can act if you shove the consequences directly into their faces. All it took is two planes crashing into skyscrapers to start two wars and reinvent both transportation and information security (for better or worse). But the climate change goes too slow, you can't really see the consequences, you need to trust the specialists, and that's where things fall down. Doubly so if you have democracy, since you can't really do anything important if you keep asking everyone for opinion.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by mhb on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @01:57PM (#8631859)
at this scale, money roughly translates to human lives

It does that at every scale.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by mjevans on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @01:46PM (#8631791)
Continuing that hypothetical:

Most of the effects that climate scientists predict will happen as a result of increased global mean temperature are highly negative; from the extinction of many species to the loss of coastal habitats (for humans).

In a non-political world we would compare the costs of climate engineering practices against the costs of taking the resulting losses from failure to act.

Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by xexers on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @01:51PM (#8631814)
who gets to control the thermostat? Some countries would want it hotter... others want it colder.
Re:What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change by logfromblammo on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @02:54PM (#8632218)
Dad always controls the thermostat. So we'd have to select the most father-like of countries.

I hope you like thick sweaters and/or handheld fans, because the Country Like Everybody's Dad isn't made of money, and close the front door, because it isn't paying to heat and/or cool the whole world, plus the inside of your house, too.