Re:Ian Jackson Resigns from Debian Technical Committee
by 1_player on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @11:04AM
(#8630739)
The systemd is a make dependency only. Unless you plan on compiling it yourself, you don't need systemd to run it.
~ $ y -Qi libutil-linux | grep Depends
Depends On : None
EDIT: conversely, these are the packages depending on systemd: ~ $ y -Qi systemd | grep Required | fmt
Required By : accountsservice chromium colord crda cups
device-mapper gnome-session lib32-systemd libgdm libgusb libpulse
libusb libvirt libwacom lvm2 media-player-info mesa mkinitcpio
netctl polkit procps-ng qt5-base qtwebkit rtkit spotify subversion
systemd-sysvcompat udisks2 upower xf86-input-evdev xf86-video-ati
xf86-video-modesetting
As a sysadmin and developer I don't understand this systemd-hate. If you ever have written a /etc/init.d script for a python non-daemoning script running in a virtualenv, or something to the same effect, you'd notice the improvement over SysV init scripts.Upstart is nice too, but as a Linux desktop user I love socket activation: I can have cups, avahi and other optional/non-critical daemons "active" but not actually using any resource, until effectively used by some other process.
Re:Ian Jackson Resigns from Debian Technical Committee
by exarch on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @12:08PM
(#8631173)
>If you ever have written a /etc/init.d script for a python non-daemoning script running in a virtualenv, or something to the same effect, you'd notice the improvement over SysV init scripts.
These are solved problems. You're creating a bunch of low level OS spaghetti because you don't want to have to write a shell script for your software? That is not a responsible decision-making process, that's moving the mountain to you.
Re:Ian Jackson Resigns from Debian Technical Committee
by digi_owl on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @12:33PM
(#8631348)
And making it harder for someone to come afterwards and untangle the mess.
I swear a earlier discussion here on this very site had someone honestly suggest the usage of strace to figure out why systemd failed to boot.
Re:Ian Jackson Resigns from Debian Technical Committee
by the_why_of_y on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @03:26PM
(#8632397)
Countless subtle race conditions and security issues in the shell spaghetti that makes up real-world init scripts indicate that it's not a "solved problem".
Re:Ian Jackson Resigns from Debian Technical Committee
by cesarb on Wednesday November 19, 2014 @11:16AM
(#8630816)
That's probably because util-linux has a command, logger, which can optionally log to systemd's journal. Take a look at http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/logger.1.html.
On Arch at least, wget depends on util-linux (package containing kernel tools like mount, dmesg etc.): https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/wget/ And util-linux depends on systemd: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/libutil-linux...
I have to assume this is Arch-specific, because I can't anything that basic as util-linux including a dependency on a specific init tool (and given there are still distros using other inits than systemd and still working fine...)