They might be referring to the core framework? If that's the case, I completely agree with them: wonderful language, nasty framework.

> nasty framework.

Only for those that never had the pleasure to enjoy enterprise astronaut architects with their DCOM, CORBA and JEE designs.

JEE is not bad, J2EE is bad.

JEE has no comparable .NET framework/library/tools.

Enterprise astronaut architects never stop to surprise me.

Ditto with cowboy coders.. hacked-up solutions, allegedly "MVP", lean/mean stack that hits the ceiling pretty fast that begs for re-write.

I guess I've hit a sore point.

"enterprise architect" here. Yes you just stamped on a lot of our toes and rightly so. There is a lot of batshit out there which is what you've most likely experienced. There are a few of us working to destroy this batshit without sacrificing the ultimate goal of building something that isn't a bag of rats though, so please don't tar and feather us all.

For ref, I don't use PowerPoint, I do write (a fuck load of) code, don't organise meetings and don't speak in buzzwords. I do however have a thinkpad so that's the only stereotype...

I am an enterprise architect/developer myself.

Hahaha, no I'm just trying to balance it.

The thing is, I've been using JEE stack and toying with Rails as well on the side. I'm amazed how Rails community changed their tone from "Java sucks" to implicitly copying the best practices in Java/JEE world.

So there ya go, my 2c.

Ah ok! I agree that there are those type of developers as well.

Me, I tend to focus on the JVM/.NET/C++ ecosystems at work, and depending on the project types, I do a mix roles of architecture/development.

I don't know, I've never worked in Java.