News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by ars on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @05:33AM (#8486610)
Why do they always make these experimental child-driven schools for the "bad" children? The truants, and the misbehaved.

Why not try it for the "best" children? Those who have a real desire and ability to learn, but don't necessarily fit in in a regular school.

Provide classes, and let the child decide which to go to.

Give exams, but don't record the grade - just give it to the child so they know how they are doing.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by lordbusiness on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @06:40AM (#8486740)
Montessori is built specifically on these principles, and is widely adopted [citation needed ;-)] by parents of gifted kids who struggle with the grind of the regular school systems. (At least, in the western world).

Also, home schooling is growing in popularity in many progressive countries, largely to cater to child-led learning.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by hamai on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @09:19AM (#8487143)
(Engrish ahead...)

I have great memories from a Montessori School I went to as a kid. Spent most of my childhood education there. It was a big house, each room was dedicated to a subject and students would change rooms, big shared tables and very few students per room. I also don't remember grades or at least no focus on it.

When I got to a normal school it was one big room packed with tiny individual chairs, all classes happened in that room, everything was easy, suddenly I was a "top student" and grades were a carrot to chase after. I didn't turned out exactly a Noam Chomsky but I find it funny he had this same experience while going from an alternative education to a traditional one.

I think he talks about it in this interview: http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20130326.htm

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by ska on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @07:31AM (#8486826)
The thinking is something like:

A bright kid with a decent social support system may not find a place in the schools, but will make a place forthemselves outside that system. A kid who is struggling to read at grade level, who comes from an impoverished and/or abusive social network - this kid may have two strikes against them before they show up at all, and warrants the extra effort to try and help lift themselves out of there circumstances.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by icelancer on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @03:49PM (#8489450)
Raise our averages and lower our standards. Great.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by ska on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @05:10PM (#8490030)
You're pretty far off the mark here.

Not that I necessarily endorse the approach either, but it comes from a social welfare perspective, nothing to do with raising averages. More to do with raising citizens, as it were.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by blueskin_ on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @05:54AM (#8486651)
I assume it's the (sometimes valid, sometimes false) assumption that many of the 'bad' children are actually too intelligent/talented and get bored because school moves too slowly for them. Admittedly, it is definitely the case for some children, but the majority of 'bad' ones are just too stupid/lazy instead.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @07:34AM (#8486832)
I disagree. I was one of those kids who was singled out for special education because I was "too stupid/lazy"; but it just turned out I was really bored. I bet our imposed labels just adversely effect these kids until they "match our expectations" and are basically lost forever. In my case, it took until high school, or even college to "break out" of the label.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by corin_ on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @08:21AM (#8486934)
Definitely both types of "too stupid/lazy" exist, but your single data point doesn't say anything to whether you're the 1 in 100 or the 99.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @09:24AM (#8487171)
Actually, kids are born with lots of potential that are basically wrung out of them as they "develop." The public education systems in most countries were designed to create obedient factory workers, after all.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by Udo_Schmitz on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @07:40AM (#8486843)
A.S. Neill actually talked about that in a book. It’s the parents that mostly prefer traditional schools and only consider alternatives when something goes wrong with their kids.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by Htsthbjig on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @01:52PM (#8488671)
Calling a person "bad" children is a label.

Have you seen the dog whisperer in witch Cesar Millan takes "bad"(behavior) dogs and make the good ones?

Well, with people it is the same. My mother was teacher an volunteered to help poor children in her spare time.

She made lots of bad children become "good" ones, even becoming brilliant engineers, doctors or teachers. Basically she become their mother and gave them lots of love and care(and time, lots of time).

It is personally very rewarding but also incredible extenuating.

Our family experience tells us the main reason a kid behaves bad is because she does not care.

Imagine that your parents are drugs addicts. There is no money on the house even for the basics because for a drug addict the only important thing is getting drugs. Your parents don't care about you. You know they don't love you, drugs really fuck your brain.

Imagine your mother is a whore that loves to sleep with lots of men. You have a new dad every two weeks.

Imagine you are sexually abused by your uncle, or your father comes drunk every day and hits you.

This happens a lot. The people that suffers this couldn't care less about math or the rivers in the world.

In the US they simply put this people in jail, where they learn from other prisoners and become more and more dangerous.US has the biggest(absolute and relative) incarceration rate in the world by far.

The first thing you have to do is create a "safe net" for those kids before they are interested in anything else.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by skylan_q on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @08:35AM (#8486970)
The aim isn't a good education, it's a 100% graduation rate.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by dnautics on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @12:27PM (#8488127)
they did. I went to such a school (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hb_woodlawn). It was a public 'magnet' or 'charter before the concept of charter' school.

My class was 70 students. Although being in Arlington meant "solidly middle class", among some notables (modestly achieved, not super-famous) from my graduating class (1999) include: Stephen Ridley, who is CEO of xipiter, the company making USB condoms which have been featured here. Fabian Bouthillette, former assistant to Gore Vidal and author of "Gore Vidal's last stand" (http://www.amazon.com/Gore-Vidals-Last-Stand-Initiation-eboo...), Adam Berninger founder of a advertisement and design firm, and Naomi Uyama, world champion swing dancer and band-leader.

Steven and Naomi got to where they were without finishing (or in Naomi's case ever going to) college, which is funny since H-B always was proud of its college matriculation rate.

5 entrepreneurs out of 70 isn't that bad, I think! (I'm 90% of the way to being "modestly achieved")

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by DanBC on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @06:35AM (#8486727)
Governments are not brave.

England has about 17,000 primary schools and about 4,000,000 primary school children. (ages 4 to 11). This group would be amazing for randomised controlled studies of teaching methods. But teachers hate being told how to teach[1]; parents would not like the idea that their child is getting the placaebo teaching method[2]; and governments are not brave enough to try it.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @09:42AM (#8487246)
Wouldn't the control group get the current standard curriculum and teaching methods. You're not looking for changes wrt non-teaching, you're looking for changes compared to the current pedagogical form.

There's much to learn from non-school based education but I doubt most of it can be applied with the financial constraints we have [in the UK].

[I'm guessing you missed some links there.]

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by alexhawdon on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @11:07AM (#8487704)
Comparing children in some new study against the general population of mainstream children is the general approach we use and it's fraught with problems.

The studies are often small sample sizes of children who are often opted-in by their parents and the teaching is done by better than average teachers with lots of support and involvement from the institution who designed the study or otherwise stands to gain from its successful outcome.

All that is generally revealed is that children whose parents are engaged in their education being taught by good teachers and that are aware they are in a 'special' group do better than average. Unsurprisingly the methods don't scale very well.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by saraid216 on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @06:00PM (#8490392)
You know, the only time I've ever heard the term "brave" applied to a large group of people is when the group in question is an army.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by untog on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @06:35AM (#8486728)
Mostly because the existing system works out pretty well for the "best" children. True, they might not be taxed to their full extent, but they will still be top of their class and progress to university.

And, not to sound too cynical about it, the parents of the "best" children tend to be very involved in their children's education, and might resist an experiment.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by jtheory on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @07:33AM (#8486830)
I went through school always near the top, academically, but I wouldn't say I was well-served by the school system. My wife had much the same experience, though rather worse than mine; she very clearly remembers loving doing math with her older brothers when she was small, but schooling managed to replace that with almost a phobia of anything that looks like math.

Now we have small children, and they're obsessed with reading/writing, numbers, and creative play just like we were as kids -- so they're far ahead of their age group, generally -- but we've kept them out of school so far. We're trying to figure out a path for them through the available educational options, and we're strongly inclined towards more experimental approaches.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by mpthrapp on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @10:16AM (#8487425)
If I can evangelize for a sec, I went to a Sudbury[1] school and I would highly recommend it. It's a very free environment and, as someone who is fairly self-motivated, it was amazingly helpful for me. There aren't a ton of locations, but if there's one near you, I'd recommend at least checking it out.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_school

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by tormeh on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @09:59AM (#8487331)
International schools are good, I hear. I mean, they're conventional, but they usually attract smarter student/parents. International baccalaureate is more high school, but I wish I had taken it.
Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by jtheory on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @05:24PM (#8490134)
Thanks for mentioning that -- we're familiar with the international baccalaureate; my wife went to the United World College in New Mexico.

It was completely different from her educational experience before that (not unstructured, but still... much more open-minded about education, and smart about guiding students to think about their place in the world) and the experience had a huge positive effect on her life; we are in touch (and in some cases, close friends) with a startling high percentage of her classmates there, and we've met up with (and often been hosted by) UWC classmates in Austria, Netherlands, India, Australia, France, Malaysia, and various parts of the US (and probably some other places I'm forgetting at the moment...). And despite being quite a diverse group, they're generally pretty interesting people to talk to.

I didn't even know such options existed when I was in HS; and probably would have thought it wasn't for me, at that age. But looking back now, I wish I'd gone as well.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by InclinedPlane on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @09:17AM (#8487130)
Many of the smartest and most successful people I know were not well served by the traditional school system. For myself I only began to do well in school when I somehow managed to acquire the maturity, at 13, to realize that I needed to take education seriously and make use of the system. I went from being in several remedial classes in my freshman year of high school to near the top of my class at graduation and attaining a bachelor's degree at age 20. But it was a very close thing, and I've seen others with great intelligence who struggled in school.

And, to be frank, much of what I learned, at least half, while attending public school I learned on my own, independent of classes. But again, I was fortunate. Fortunate to still have faith in the system. Fortunate to have gone to a very high quality high school where I actually could get a decent education and where most of the teachers and faculty put education as their top priority (this is not necessarily the norm). Fortunate to have a home life that encouraged and facilitated reading and learning, as well as acquisition of reading materials. Fortunate that I had acquired maturity ahead of most folks at that age at a time when it was critical. Fortunate that I had not fallen in with "the wrong crowd" of people and ended up dropping out of school or getting into drugs or petty crime or what-have-you.

A lot of kids, smart kids, are not as lucky as I was. And if anything the system is even worse today. Teenagers' lives are more regimented, there's more busywork, there's less trust, the academic bureaucracy is more onerous, it's harder to escape peer pressure due to the ubiquity of social media, and so on.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by DanBC on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @06:37AM (#8486733)
I'm not sure you can say that. And especially not of the schools of the 1970s and 1980s.

A lot of academically minded children would have been very poorly served by those schools. People getting to university would have been the children of upper and middle class parents who had money to afford private schooling or tuition or coaching to get into good grammar schools.

Re:The anarchic experimental schools of the 1970s by ZeroGravitas on Tuesday October 21, 2014 @07:10AM (#8486790)
I think they are using a recursive definition of "best" to mean those who succeed under the current system whereas the original question posted seems to be defining "best" as the misfits who fail in the current system despite (or indeed because of) their aptitude.