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Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by tomp on Monday October 20, 2014 @06:48AM (#8481457)
I was spanked as a child. Not frequently (maybe 5 times over 15 years), but enough that I knew pain was a possible punishment. Me and my brother were very "active" kids (apparently, people called us "the demolition team") so I guess it wasn't easy for our parents to control us; however, the more frequent punishment was "kneeling looking at the wall" - that one was very effective, as it calmed us down and discouraged similar behavior in the future. But, without the fear of pain, I don't think we would see our parents as authoritative figures.
Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by MichaelGG on Monday October 20, 2014 @07:12AM (#8481512)
My brothers and I were also spanked a fair amount as kids (my parents were sorta fundies back then, but they got better). It worked alright to help enforce some discipline. I certainly don't bear them any ill will for it.

But with my kids, I never did that. First it seemed the literature was against it. But I wasn't very confident in that by itself. Punishment data could be too dependent on other factors. Like reports of having a lot of books in the house being a good thing -- it's more an indicator of what kind of family you are in the first place.

The reason I cannot spank my kids is that I cannot find a rationally justifiable reason to, ethically. How can i answer if my kids say "Michael, why are you allowed to hit us?" I'm assaulting because I've physical superiority and legal protection! That does not sound defensible, even if the ends is that it'll make them a better person (which isn't clear).

In general, I've treated them as the autonomous beings they are. I enforce some things against their will (e.g. try to limit shit food and shit TV). But there, the reason is because they lack the understanding to make good decisions. But violating them physically - using direct pain as a response to a non-physical threat - seems to have no logical path allowing it.

Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by chroma on Monday October 20, 2014 @07:32AM (#8481566)
I intend to raise the kids in the same manner.

If you hit an adult, it's assault.

If you hit a dog, it's animal abuse.

If you hit your spouse, it's domestic violence.

But hitting your child is not just legal, it's encouraged by many. People will spare no effort rationalizing justifications for it.

To see how preposterous this is, use the reversal test.[1] If hitting children was unheard of, do you think society would move toward doing it? We've eliminated corporal punishment in almost every other domain. Drill sergeants can't hit soldiers. Even hitting prisoners is a violation of the 8th Amendment. Hitting children is historical cruft that needs to be eliminated.

Edit: You removed the line saying you would hit your children. Well, at least I've quoted it.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversal_test

Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by tomp on Monday October 20, 2014 @07:49AM (#8481622)
These comparisons with adults are intellectually dishonest. What would you do if two kids were fighting? Treat them as adults, throw them into jail for 5-10 years? Or would you use some shorter-term form of punishment?

> Edit: You removed the line saying you would hit your children. Well, at least I've quoted it.

Yes, I wanted to A/B test which paragraph was causing the down-votes.

Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by chroma on Monday October 20, 2014 @08:04AM (#8481674)
First, assault & battery are misdemeanors. They are punishable by up to a year in prison, and maximum sentences are rare.

Second, violence is not acceptable as punishment, but it is acceptable (often necessary) in defense of self and others. If people are fighting, it's fine to break them up. That said, I doubt a larger adult needs to resort to blows to stop two kids fighting.

Third, there are plenty of punishments that don't involve hitting. It's common to restrict access to TV or games. If all else fails, there's the dreaded, "No phone for a week."

Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by tomp on Monday October 20, 2014 @08:10AM (#8481688)
> It's common to restrict access to TV or games. If all else fails, there's the dreaded, "No phone for a week."

Except, of course, if you're limiting the TV anyways, and you don't allow kids to have (smart-)phones.

In general, I agree, there are other kinds of punishment, but they might sometimes not be effective. Then what?

Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by DanBC on Monday October 20, 2014 @08:54AM (#8481840)
You assume that physical violnce is effective. Research shows otherwise.

And if you try beating your child and it doesn't work, what then?

Physical violence is used by bad perents who don't know effective methods of discipline.

Re:To spank or not to spank: Corporal punishment in the US by tomp on Monday October 20, 2014 @09:25AM (#8481976)
> You assume that physical violnce is effective. Research shows otherwise.

Did you read the article? Research shows that corporal punishment can be effective, if done in the right way (i.e. don'y hit your kids when they are angry).

> Physical violence is used by bad perents who don't know effective methods of discipline.

We disagree with the definition of bad parent, apparently. I think my parents were very good. Of course, as I said initially, they very rarely resorted to physical punishment, but me and my brother knew that the threat was credible. Of course, I don't think any of their friends would agree with them, but then, none of them had comparably active and difficult children.