News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by tripzilch on Thursday October 09, 2014 @07:51AM (#8431810)
> you borrow money with the explicit notion that you might not repay it; that's what sets the interest rate, both sides know that going in.

The interest rate is set by the fact that money-NOW is worth more than money-in-a-few-months-or-years. This is also the case if it's certain you will get the money.

I never considered that risk would also be a factor in interest rates. It makes sense, but I really doubt it's a very big factor. Since in most cases debt means you will eventually get the money back, the risk is very little (depending on economic health, I guess). But the "money now vs money then" factor is always present.

Can anyone with a little more insight into these matters inform us whether risk of not being paid back actually represents a substantial amount of the interest rate? Cause I doubt it.

> There's nothing at all immoral about choosing to suffer the hit on your credit rather than repay as both options are expected possible outcomes in the original deal.

Is that how it works in America? Because as an outsider, this sounds very weird to me.

Say you have a debt with me, you fail to repay me but instead you opt to "take a hit on your credit score", which is, I presume, some sort of abstract "score" number kept by agreements between cc-corporations, banks and such? (or is it a government thing? probably not)

So this credit score determines whether you can get certain loans at banks, interest rates for your credit cards, stuff like that yes?

In the mean time there's me. What do I care about your credit score? Do I get to think, "hey I didn't get my money, but at least that guy is going to have a shitty time securing loans from now on and having a stable financial future". How does that help me? You still screwed me over by not paying me back, and the simple fact that, in the process, you also screwed yourself over doesn't help me at all. I'm not the vindictive kind, and some abstract revenge credit score "punishment" you suffer in your standing with other institutions won't get me my money back.

See, this doesn't make it moral, at all.

The fact that we both know, if you don't pay me back, you'll be screwing yourself over by means of credit score, just means that I might be more likely to believe you that you'd rather pay back your debt than suffer that hit. Meaning less risk for me. But if it turns out that not paying and suffering the hit is in fact a serious alternative option for you (instead of a deterrent), you may as well say "I'll pay you back or I stab myself in the eye"--what do I care? (well in fact I would prefer if you didn't, because in my personal ethical framework, such deals themselves are immoral)

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by cantankerous on Thursday October 09, 2014 @10:16AM (#8432463)
This analogy doesn't relate to OP's comment. He's talking about secured debt with institutional lenders, not interpersonal loans. Risk is an integral component to determining your interest rate in the US. This is why there is an industry around protecting, understanding, and improving one's FICO score here. Try getting a good loan with a crappy (or substandard) credit score.

Spoiler Alert:

You can't.

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by encoderer on Thursday October 09, 2014 @11:15AM (#8432865)
Risk is THE biggest factor in interest rates. If it was all timevalue we'd be paying interest closer to inflation rates.

Put yourself in the shoes of a lender. On one hand is a doctor, $300k salary, looking to borrow $30k for a new boat. 780 fico. On the other is Trevor, a bartender who makes $25k a year, has a 680 fico with some late payments and a cable bill collection from 2 years ago and wants $30k for a new car.

Would you lend to them both at the same rate? Both will have the same time value effects....

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by tripzilch on Thursday October 09, 2014 @01:43PM (#8433939)
Thanks for clarifying, everybody.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by gnaritas on Thursday October 09, 2014 @11:59AM (#8433165)
> The interest rate is set by the fact that money-NOW is worth more than money-in-a-few-months-or-years. This is also the case if it's certain you will get the money.

No, interest rates are a measure of risk; the bigger the risk of default the higher the interest rate. Bad credit score equals very high interest rate.

Secondly, stop pretending you're the lender, we're talking about banks here, not personal loans from friends.

When you take out a loan with a bank, it's a business deal with explicit exit strategies baked in: pay off loan, or default loan. Both options are valid exits according to the contract. Morality simply isn't a factor in this equation.