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Re:Finding a Video Poker Bug Made These Guys Rich by mattzito on Tuesday October 07, 2014 @01:20PM (#8422466)
> Read about Phil Ivey, who used a similar "hack" to advantage play in Baccarat.

So - the slight difference there, and I'm curious whether people see this as a difference without a distinction, but Phil Ivey requested the casino to set up a scenario that would allow him to "hack" and then lied about the reasoning for doing so.

He claimed that he was "superstitious" and that's why he wanted the exact cards and shuffling machine that would allow him to win.

It's not as though he happened on this by accident and simply allowed the casino to continue making a mistake, he arranged the scenario and misrepresented his intentions in doing so.

Personally, I think if you have to lie in order to take advantage of a vendor error, your moral highground starts to crumble beneath your feet.

Re:Finding a Video Poker Bug Made These Guys Rich by lrm242 on Tuesday October 07, 2014 @01:24PM (#8422494)
There is no moral high ground in gambling. The house has the edge, and has designed it to be so. Phil Ivey is a smart gambler and knew how to shift the odds into his favor without cheating. He requested specific things, such as a specific flavor of deck that came from the casino itself and a mandarin speaking dealer. The casino agreed to these requests because it wanted Phil to play. They could have said no.

Phil Ivey's edge sorting hack is phenomenal. That the casino thinks they should be insulated from smart players is unfortunate but it is their prerogative to refuse play. However, it absolutely should NOT be possible to claw back winnings from players who were NOT cheating, only playing smartly.

Re:Finding a Video Poker Bug Made These Guys Rich by mattzito on Tuesday October 07, 2014 @01:32PM (#8422550)
...but he lied. If they had said, "Hey, why do you want this?" and he said, "I think I've got a system for beating baccarat", and they went ahead anyway, they're idiots.

But they asked and he said that he was just superstitious, it was for luck. At that point he was being disingenuous.

Was it legal? Probably, I'm not a lawyer. Was it ethical? I'm leaning towards no.

Re:Finding a Video Poker Bug Made These Guys Rich by CDRdude on Tuesday October 07, 2014 @01:38PM (#8422596)
In a great many circumstances (i.e. not testifying in court), lying is not illegal. If you're lying to a casino, I don't think it's even immoral.
Re:Finding a Video Poker Bug Made These Guys Rich by CaveTech on Tuesday October 07, 2014 @01:45PM (#8422655)
Being disingenuous is not a crime, in fact, it's incredibly common. No one should be compelled to reveal their true intentions, regardless of if they're in good faith or bad.

Intentions are subjective, actions are not.

Re:Finding a Video Poker Bug Made These Guys Rich by toomuchtodo on Tuesday October 07, 2014 @01:39PM (#8422605)
There is a large valley between lying and fraud.
Re:Finding a Video Poker Bug Made These Guys Rich by emingo on Tuesday October 07, 2014 @01:53PM (#8422733)
Casinos are in the business of taking money.

GOOD Gamblers are in the business of taking money.

Casinos exploit ignorance, they are able to take money EVEN THOUGH people know they don't have an edge.

GOOD Gamblers counter exploit that same edge.

The Casino lost.