News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Thursday October 02, 2014 @07:56AM (#8400355)
I'm not saying that you're worthless. I'm just not sure you're alive by strict standards. I'm not sure I will be - in fifteen years.

So now you think that I've "labeled" 1000 - 1 to be less than 1000? So much for math.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by dllthomas on Thursday October 02, 2014 @10:38AM (#8400890)
Even without passing on your own genes directly, you can:

1) help make sure those copies of your genes in others survive (help out relatives who did reproduce) - evolutionarily, this is equivalent to reproducing, if slightly attenuated;

and 2) have a lasting memetic impact.

And that's if you're focused only on the long term, which you seem to be - there's plenty more shorter term reasons to be alive.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 02, 2014 @10:43AM (#8400908)
Just to chase down this train of thought a little more: there are lots of ways to benefit your clan (and therefore some of your genes) without reproducing. Look at bees and termites, where the vast majority of them never reproduce, yet the queen is driven to produce them because they help the colony survive. That's selection too.

Or how about a gene that drives non-reproductive young males to be restless, jump on a horse and ride over the horizon on a whim. Sometimes they come back, say "There's buffalo over there!" and the whole tribe benefits. That's selected for too.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by dllthomas on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:04AM (#8401005)
Most of that is accurate, but careful you don't drift into group selection, which (as I understand it) isn't well supported by the available evidence. To be selected for, a trait needs to differentially increase the likelihood that genes for that trait are passed on, so there needs to be a sufficiently close relationship that the person being benefited is likely to share the gene responsible for the help (or greater effectiveness of the help, or...). Of course, there is another leap from "X causes a trait to be selected for" to "we should individually be valuing X", but guard-of-terra seems to be thinking in those terms to begin with (and others have questioned that point).
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:31AM (#8401114)
Well, other than bees and termites I guess? What is that but group selection.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by dllthomas on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:54AM (#8401240)
Due to inbreeding, termites are more closely related to their siblings than to their children. You can approximate it as group selection, but it's not a separate thing that's going on - it can be reduced to selection on individual genes.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:03AM (#8401000)
Sad thing is, I don't have a clan. I don't have a beehive, a community. So it seems that the only way for me to "keep the money in the bank" is reproduce physically.

That's why nuclear family is called nuclear. And today we often have "subnuclear" people without any strong bonds.

If I had a kind of clan, the situatiou would be different.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by dllthomas on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:08AM (#8401017)
So if we take as given that you're going to be focused on the evolutionary component, if you can no longer reproduce then walk up your family tree until you find your closest relative with progeny.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin_selection#Hamilton.27s_rule

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclusive_fitness

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:13AM (#8401029)
I'm not a walking set of genes. I'm a human being.

What if I don't feel that my "closest relative with progeny" is in any way related to me?

I don't care about inclusive fitness. Let the nature do that trick. I care about reproducing something resembling of myself. If my nearest genetic relatives don't resemble myself in any way, I don't care if they reproduce.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by dllthomas on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:15AM (#8401049)
"I'm not a walking set of genes. I'm a human being."

Certainly. But then I'd say that a huge portion of what makes you you is not genetic at all, and like I said much earlier you can always pass on memes.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:38AM (#8401151)
I can't reliably pass on memes because I don't have a clan. I'm a lone nation of one (well, two, anyway), and this nation is going to disappear once we die.

I can give memes to other unrelated people but I don't know whether they use those for good.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by dllthomas on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:57AM (#8401256)
You don't know that your children will "use those for good" either. Focus on spreading memes that promote doing good, however you define "doing good".
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Thursday October 02, 2014 @12:09PM (#8401338)
I don't think that promoting doing good works. It seems that bad things are much easier to promote these days. I don't believe in it anymore.

Children are safe bet in that regards (if you failed - means you just passed your failureness to them, good)

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by dllthomas on Thursday October 02, 2014 @01:22PM (#8401825)
"It seems that bad things are much easier to promote these days."

I don't see why that doesn't mean you should work harder at it. Maybe the marginal benefit is minimal, but if the marginal benefit of everything else is zero then it might still be the best option.

Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Thursday October 02, 2014 @03:16PM (#8402508)
It's humiliating trying to walk thru the wall by fruitlees effort.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:31AM (#8401111)
You have a culture that produced you. Maybe we can craft a cultural-selection story.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Thursday October 02, 2014 @11:42AM (#8401177)
I don't happen to particularily like that culture. It's toxic for most part. There are some nice touches here and there, but I can't tie myself to it fully.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by JoeAltmaier on Thursday October 02, 2014 @03:55PM (#8402731)
Come on now. There's the whole 'civilization' thing, and hospitals, and Bach, and Led Zeppelin, and eating with a fork... you can go on and on. Culture is more than politics.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by guard-of-terra on Friday October 03, 2014 @05:09AM (#8404781)
The culture will go without me badly enough. I don't feel that I contribute to it in a meaningful way, even less that I had any say on how things were.
Re:The Mythology of Dog Years by DanBC on Friday October 03, 2014 @05:27AM (#8404811)
You're going to have a disasterous time if you discover you are infertile.

You might want to develop a different ideology to help you cope in that event.

The CD suggests that male fertility problems are not rare.

> Many couples struggle with infertility and seek help to become pregnant; however, it is often thought of as only a women’s condition. A CDC study analyzed data from the 2002 National Survey of Family Growth and found that 7.5% of all sexually experienced men younger than age 45 reported seeing a fertility doctor during their lifetime—this equals 3.3–4.7 million men. Of men who sought help, 18% were diagnosed with a male-related infertility problem, including sperm or semen problems (14%) and varicocele (6%).

http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/infertility/#a