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Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by api on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @04:15PM (#8332136)
Most evo-psych is pretty weak stuff, basically a lot of dubious and untestable just-so rationalizations for various prejudices and apparent human tendencies. A good chunk of it is full-on woo-woo nonsense.

Sometimes I get the (rather cynical) sense that there's an inverse relationship between the merit of an idea and its virality.

Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by jbhatab on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @04:28PM (#8332195)
I'm going to have to disagree here. I think that the tests necessary to prove psych are incredible difficult, but I can still use limited sets of data to verify things. Evolutionary psych is the philosophy that matches up the best with what I have seen in this world. This isn't scientific, but if I don't have another philosophy to go off of then I will at least reference that model for ideas on how people will behave.
Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by ksk on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @04:38PM (#8332246)
>but I can still use limited sets of data to verify things.

Such as?

>This isn't scientific, but if I don't have another philosophy to go off of then I will at least reference that model for ideas on how people will behave.

I don't understand your point. If you say it's not scientific, what exactly are you "verifying" ?

Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by larksimian on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @04:53PM (#8332301)
He's verifying his ability to use the terminology of science to justify and legitimate his personal biases about other human beings and the way the world works. Limited sets of data aka personal anecdotes. The plural of anecdote and all that.

Unfortunately, as science becomes the hegemonic source of authority in our world, pseudo-science becomes the preferred language for demagoguery and bullshit.

The greatest crime of the modern scientific community(in some disciplines at least) is to viciously betray the skeptical roots of scientific thought by ignoring the value of understanding and admitting what we DO NOT know.

My personal bias is that a shitty model with 0 statistical validity should not be treated as gospel because 'It's the best we've got.' I believe that it is better to accept ignorance and act with according caution in some areas of life. But then again I have no scientific justification for that, anymore than people do for the reverse.

Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by jev on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @07:27PM (#8332927)
Here's the simplest and most convincing argument I've heard to not dismiss evo psych.

The development of male features in foetuses is triggered by a massive release of testosterone. The second stage of gendered differentiation, puberty, is similarly driven by the release of sex hormones in both men and women. Noticeably, adolescent boys with a malfunctioning endocrine system do not display typical male features (lowered voice, facial hair, etc), lesser tendency to masculine psychology (like risk taking and aggression), and don't develop sex drive (straight or gay) unless they start taking injections for life. It should be uncontroversial to say that sex and gender differences, both physiological and psychological, are tied to hormones.

Next up, the brain: the most complex and expensive organ we have, a complex system of feedback loops, again driven and regulated by secretions of hormones and peptides and so on. To say that evolutionary psychology is false and just anecdotes, you'd have to argue that, despite all the other visible changes that sex hormones make, somehow, the brain is entirely unaffected by all of that. That gender is mostly (or as some claim, entirely) a social construct, determined by something as subtle as a tone of voice or the presence of 'patriarchal gender roles'. Even though studies show children and teenagers are more affected by their peers' behaviours and attitudes than their parents'. Even though there is no culture where gender roles are truly swapped, and the 'Norwegian Gender Paradox' remains true.

Not only does the science show nature plays a significant role in the "nature vs nurture" debate on sex and gender, but policies based on denying it have failed to work.

I'm not an evo psychologist, or a biologist either. But it seems a lot more reasonable to me than what's coming from the supposed equality camp.

Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by api on Thursday September 18, 2014 @11:30AM (#8335751)
When I'm skeptical of evo psych, I am not arguing that gender or sex hormones have no effect on the brain. That would be silly... there's abundant evidence that they do.

What I'm being skeptical about is that we can take that all the way out to surface characteristics and then make blanket statements, or that we can concoct untestable fables based in current evolutionary models and then use those to justify those blanket statements.

There certainly is gender dimorphism (the right term) in humans, but it's also very hard to separate genes/development, environment, and culture. It's also very hard to go from the cellular and hormonal level all the way up to, say, how people tend to behave in job interviews.

The reason I get so skeptical in these areas is that history teaches us that human beings will rationalize their prejudices using whatever system of belief they find around them. Historically that's usually been religion, hence it use to rationalize gender and racial stereotypes. Now we live in a scientific age (supposedly), so we should be on guard for pseudoscientific attempts to do the same with scientific-sounding language. Indeed the "social Darwinists" were on that beat a century ago already. So whenever I smell an attempt to explain or justify a social prejudice or a class system, my skeptic hat goes on.

That was rambling... need coffee..

Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by api on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @05:28PM (#8332463)
> Unfortunately, as science becomes the hegemonic source of authority in our world, pseudo-science becomes the preferred language for demagoguery and bullshit.

Very well put.

Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @05:23PM (#8332438)
> This isn't scientific, but if I don't have another philosophy to go off of... (emphasis added).

That's all right as far as it goes, but you need to consistently remember that what you're doing is not science, it's philosophy.

Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by jbhatab on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @08:16PM (#8333015)
Of course, but I have built a strong enough of a model that I'm willing to bet decisions on what I know. It usually pans out well and has only gotten refined as time goes on.
Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by AznHisoka on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @04:35PM (#8332229)
Come'n, there would be less suicide bombers if they had readily access to sex with supermodels! :)
Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by ksk on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @04:36PM (#8332239)
Well then.. that settles the is Psychology a science debate ;)
Re:How evolutionary psychology went viral by Avshalom on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @04:40PM (#8332255)
Evo-psych is not.the totality of pysch.