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Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by drzaiusapelord on Tuesday September 16, 2014 @04:46PM (#8327019)
>I think perhaps they are dealing with the fact that the CST-100 system looks like something from the 70's when compared to the Dragon V2.

They both look pretty plain to me. I mean, Musk can lay on some shiny metal here and there, but they're both soulless capsules. I really like the Dream Chaser; a 1/4th size STS that can be mounted on the tip of existing rockets is very tempting.

I think Boeing's marketing wants people to know that it won't have the Musk-like cult of personality, but it can deliver the goods, thus the talking points about hitting milestones.

I wish both of them the best of luck. This isn't a competition, its delivering LEO for NASA. I think people who see it as some kind of "my guy vs yours" are missing the point.

Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by avenueevergreen on Tuesday September 16, 2014 @05:06PM (#8327119)
I don't think seeing them as soulless capsules is a very productive attitude. It's true that Dream Chaser's lifting body design looks sexy, but I don't think the goal of human spaceflight is to be sexy.

From a tech perspective, and keeping in mind that I can presume the goal of human spaceflight to be to push humanity further into the cosmos, I see one thing really exciting about Dragon 2 that CST-100 doesn't have--propulsive landing. A NASA Ames research team says that Dragon 2 thrown by Falcon Heavy could execute a fully propulsive EDL on Mars. This seems like interesting heritage to build, and shows that development of Dragon 2 could have implications on further spaceflight.

Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by ansible on Tuesday September 16, 2014 @06:04PM (#8327361)
They both look pretty plain to me. I mean, Musk can lay on some shiny metal here and there, but they're both soulless capsules. I really like the Dream Chaser; a 1/4th size STS that can be mounted on the tip of existing rockets is very tempting.

Plain is good. Plain (in this context) is correlated with reliable.

Here's the thing with the STS. The lifting-body design spreads a critical system component (the reentry system) over a large area, necessarily on the outside of the craft.

A capsule with a more conventional ablative re-entry heat shield is more durable and reliable. It is also protected for most of the mission. It can be engineered with plenty of design margin (at minimal weight penalty), to deal with unexpected circumstances. That makes for a good design.

The TPS on the STS has partially failed several times [1], and once catastrophically.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-27#Tile_damage

Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by rbanffy on Tuesday September 16, 2014 @06:49PM (#8327549)
> I really like the Dream Chaser; a 1/4th size STS that can be mounted on the tip of existing rockets is very tempting.

It's much heavier than a Dragon v2, meaning it carries less payload for the same launch cost, for more or less the same land-where-you-want capability. It's pretty, but pretty does not solve the problem.

Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by JulianMorrison on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @09:31AM (#8329818)
IIRC it does have the advantage of simplicity in use (if not in construction) over the Dragon: it lands without fuel and without needing refuelling. Re-use could amount to wiping it down and kicking the tires, then winching it up onto a new booster.
Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by legohead on Tuesday September 16, 2014 @06:24PM (#8327463)
Take a look at the insides. The CST-100 is extremely cramped for the astronauts. The Dragon 2 looks like luxury in comparison. If there are astronauts that get to ride in both modules, I'm pretty sure they are going to be pro Space-X far and above (assuming both perform normally).
Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by ak217 on Thursday September 18, 2014 @12:42PM (#8336165)
The lifting body may look more inspiring, but despite what you say, the Dragon 2 has many key innovations that are aimed at what really matters: reducing the cost and increasing the safety of spaceflight. Shroudless launch, 3D printed main engines, integrated LES using the main engines, propulsive landing, full reusability. To draw an equivalence between it and other previous capsule designs that don't have those features is misleading.

Perhaps Dream Chaser was ready to do all those things. I wish it went forward as well. But the technologies in Dragon 2 will make a big difference.

Re:Boeing-SpaceX Team Split Space Taxi Award by mikeash on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @06:38AM (#8329374)
Look at capabilities, not looks. Dragon V2, if it lives up to its promise along with F9R, means dramatically reduced costs for launching people into space through almost complete reusability of the launch vehicle and capsule. Turnaround times on the order of days, launch costs in the single-digit millions, it would be huge. It's basically all of the empty promises of the Space Shuttle, but (it appears for the moment, at least) with the hardware to back it up.

CST-100 makes similar promises if it can be matched with a reusable launcher (perhaps F9R). I'm not sure if they're looking at similarly short turnaround times (probably not). But they're much less far along and it's hard to judge if they can deliver.

Dream Chaser also makes similar promises, again if it can be matched with a reusable launcher. What's the advantage of it over the others? As far as I can see, the only real advantage is less gee loading during reentry. In exchange, you add a lot of complication and weight (wings and wheels). It doesn't seem worth it at all.

Spaceplanes look cool, but what's the point? The goal should be robustness and cheapness, with reusability a necessity for enabling the latter. Vertical powered landing with a capsule looks like an excellent way to achieve this.