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Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by zbowling on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @12:02PM (#8198048)
> "a new system that can run iOS apps on an Android device for the first time"

We at Apportable (YC W2011) have been doing that for 3 + years in a much for commercially viable way. We strive for source compatibility and are not building an emulator that requires taking libraries from an iOS device.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by nokiaman on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @12:34PM (#8198262)
Your way requires the developer to use Apportable to port an iOS app to Android. If the developer has agreed with Apple to not port the app to Android, it will never be available.

Their way gives the power to the user. The user copies across iOS app binary and system libraries and it's done.

Basically, your way empowers the developer, their way empowers the user.

You need to be commercially viable because your investors demand it. The price you charge developers may prevent some developers from porting their app.

They don't need to be commercially viable because they're a research project. If they release their source code, the community of hackers will develop a free and easy to install system to allow users to run any iOS app on Android.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by zbowling on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @01:04PM (#8198448)
> If the developer has agreed with Apple to not port the app to Android, it will never be available.

This is not in the developers interests usually. I have heard release exclusives but they all almost have expiration dates.

> Their way gives the power to the user. The user copies across iOS app binary and system libraries and it's done.

While it may empower users, it's not widely practical. (IANAL) You also have a problem that it's near impossible to get the apps off the device (you can download them with iTunes on the desktop though), then you have to decrypt them of their FairPlay encryption, and then transfer them to an Android device without possibly violating several licenses, the DMCA, and few copyrights along the way.

Providing an SDK for developers to cross compile their apps means that the apps are built and optimized specifically for Android when compiled and the distribution is not an issue for the developers because it's just like any other app on Android. It also allows the developer to integrate and provide support for system features specifically on Android.

> They don't need to be commercially viable because they're a research project.

It's not that it's not commercially viable but that highly impractical. It's will be hard to distribute and make very accessible and usable for users.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by aye on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @01:21PM (#8198575)
Is it fair to say that Apportable : Objective-C :: Xamarin : C#?
Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by zbowling on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @01:32PM (#8198641)
more pedantically Approtable : native :: Xamarin : CLR

As part of a thought experiment I got Mono running on top of Apportable's platform (I used to work on Mono myself ironically). We just work at a lower level at Apportable.

Xamarin has great high level tools for developing apps if you want to write in C#. We rely on the tools the developers already use and know (mainly Xcode) to develop for other platforms while also providing you a native userland that has most of the same native APIs and frameworks you find on iOS (and most Unix like environments) that you don't get on Android out of the box.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by peapicker on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @12:57PM (#8198414)
"The user copies across iOS app binary and system libraries and it's done."

So, the user gets to violate the Apple copyrights. sigh

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by gue5t on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @02:56PM (#8199110)
I'll violate Apple copyrights until the day I die. Copyright is protectionist, monopolist bullshit, and it gets in the way of empowering users--and "empowering users" is the only ethical purpose of technological development. Anything else will merely work to reinforce existing imbalanced power structures.

Additionally, copyright doesn't disallow you from copying a file from one device you own to another. Copyright is about the distribution of ideas between people, not about arrangements of bits.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by 72deluxe on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @06:51PM (#8200276)
I'm curious: Would you have the same stance if you released some (non-free) software or a non-free hardware product and it was really successful? Would you want people to ignore the copyright then? Would you be happy for it to show up entirely cloned in the far East?

People seem to have this disgust of Copyright / paying for music / paying for films / paying for software and justify it with vague arguments about "fat cats" and "sticking it to the man" but then would obviously object to people taking their own stuff....

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by gue5t on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @07:32PM (#8200418)
Piracy and dismissal of copyright isn't an egalitarian act of rebellion; it's a humanist recognition of the right of any person to freely engage with the world around them. I have enough material wealth, and if I make something that's actually useful it would be great to see people building versions of it that better suit their specific needs.

That said, it is fun to say "fuck the man", and often doing the right thing coincides with it for a while. Rhetoric like that can be a good way to get some people out of their comfort zones on topics like copyright, and then more nuanced analysis can lead to the realization of the importance of building sustainable, respectful means of production. DRM, Copyright, etc. are net losses to society. They may be the only way 100mm-dollar-budget movies can exist, but I think it's better to have a culture where the people have democratic control over the objects of their culture instead of being at the mercy of content conglomerates, cease-and-desist letters for fan works, and geographic youtube restrictions.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by 72deluxe on Thursday August 28, 2014 @04:47AM (#8236427)
If I had some copyright on software that I sold, would you be happy copying and dismissing my copyright then?

You may say that copyright is a loss to society, but as an individual that is part of the society, I would be losing out from your infringement of my copyright. That would mean that my individual loss would equate to a loss within that society.

Or am I not part of society? Does my copyright mean nothing to you?

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by cookiecaper on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @02:49PM (#8199070)
Copyright is fundamentally open to interpretation. Android users may have a reasonable fair use case, regardless of what Apple says.
Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by rsynnott on Wednesday August 20, 2014 @06:13AM (#8201747)
> If the developer has agreed with Apple to not port the app to Android

Exclusives in the mobile industry are vanishingly rare. This wasn't always the case; Nvidia had a bunch of exclusive games (or at least exclusive on Android; they were mostly iOS ports) when they brought out the Tegra 2, and Samsung and Amazon have occasionally had time-limited exclusives on high-profile properties like Angry Birds, but it doesn't really make much sense for the developer, and seems to have largely stopped.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by downandout on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @12:34PM (#8198263)
You're saying that Apportable lets users run iOS apps on Android? Just from briefly looking at your site, it looks like you just enable developers to easily port iOS apps to Android. In my view those are two completely different things.
Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by aye on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @12:10PM (#8198091)
Oh, boy. I was seriously addicted to EyeLord for a little while. If I want to build an Obj-C app for Android, is https://github.com/apportable/NDKSignalTest a good place to start?
Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by zbowling on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @12:17PM (#8198129)
That's an awesome bug test case. I guess if you are the kind of dev that likes to start by copying StackOverflow question code (and not the SO answer code), then that is a perfectly acceptable project to start with to get started with to make successful apps on Android. :-)

Also I have an urge to pop some eye balls in EyeLord right now.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by pinkyand on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @04:34PM (#8199634)
In general Apportable sounds great. But in reality - we see little results, relatively. Lots of IOS only apps, still. None of the big guys, who would surely be interested in offering devices/app-stores with full access to ios apps have bought you.

So i wonder: why is that gap between the marketing and reality ? and maybe an emulator will close that gap ?

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by argonaut on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @10:39PM (#8200867)
Is it the technology you doubt? If so, you can easily try out apportable and see it for yourself.

There are a lot of reasons why people don't use Apportable, most of them don't have anything to do with Apportable's actual technology. Those reasons include: not willing to pay for it, and the fact that iOS design patterns (human interface guidelines) are completely different from Android design patterns. You cannot simply port over the exact same buttons and table views from iOS. Apportable will port those over just fine, but you basically need to redesign the entire app to be different on Android to have something that isn't jarring. At which point you may as well write everything in Java.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by rsynnott on Wednesday August 20, 2014 @06:15AM (#8201750)
> None of the big guys, who would surely be interested in offering devices/app-stores with full access to ios apps have bought you.

To do that, they'd need developer cooperation. Developers are notoriously unwilling to deal with any app stores but the Apple and Google ones; look at the state of the Amazon and particularly the Samsung ones.

Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by azinman2 on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @01:24PM (#8198588)
But the focus is on games. I am developing an app that is not a game that makes heavy use of UIKit and core animation... When can I use apportable realistically?
Re:Cider Project: Run iOS apps on Android by zbowling on Tuesday August 19, 2014 @01:38PM (#8198681)
We started with games and it's most of what you see on the site, but it's never been our only focus.

If you hit our sales team up at [email protected], we have product that is in beta that you could get access to that might work for you.