News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by fidotron on Friday August 15, 2014 @12:26PM (#8182876)
People used to complain about mobile device fragmentation, but the web is now looking more fragmented than at any point since IE3 vs Netscape, and whoever else decided to chuck together an excuse for a browser and release it.

The approach where all the vendors are ignoring each other as much as possible while pursuing their own improvements has created a giant mess. What is strangling the situation is there is no consistent vision of what they're actually trying to achieve, so the resulting platform is incoherent, and thus absolutely joyless to work with.

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by zghst on Friday August 15, 2014 @01:21PM (#8183155)
Pointer events aren't too big of a deal, they are simple polyfills for them. Collaboration between the vendors today has never been better.

Just look at IE, it went from being a last place browser to being a second class browser (first class being Firefox and Chrome). IE 10 pioneered CSS grids, the basis for a mature CSS flexbox spec (thank you MS!!!!), CSS regions (although it is only iFrames =/), setImmediate, pointer events. The competition and collaborations between the browsers (and Adobe) today has set an era for stability and phenomenal progress.

Just thinking about the next IE version gets me tingling: partial ES6, Media capture, HTTP2, Web Audio API, etc. I could have never imagined that the IE team would become so sharp! Now if they can implement some CSS stuff as well (masking, shapes, composting, blending and filters PRETTY PLEASE) and make the browser more deferential to the content (shrink title bars and remove the border around the window por favor), then I will fall in love as I have with Safari.

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by rbyers on Friday August 15, 2014 @01:48PM (#8183276)
Agreed! We had a great "input face-to-face" meeting at Microsoft back in June, and the collaboration between IE, Safari, Firefox and Chrome teams seems better than ever. Despite our differences of opinion, we finally all appear to be working towards common goals with interoperability foremost.
Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by bellerocky on Friday August 15, 2014 @12:34PM (#8182922)
> but the web is now looking more fragmented than at any point since IE3 vs Netscape

Is there really need to engage in hyperbole? The situation is bad enough without having to resort to exaggerations for effect.

The IE6 lack of support for transparent pngs and a host of other incompatibilities also fragmented the web and in effect the situation is much better now because most sites just work in IE 11 even though developers only tested in Chrome and or Firefox. This is true unless you're using features that haven't made it through the standardization process yet like webrtc. That sites "just work" in the latest version of IE without testing wasn't the case 5 years ago, or even 3 years ago.

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by matthewmacleod on Friday August 15, 2014 @12:31PM (#8182906)
I'd flip it around and say the opposite, myself!

Browser vendors generally seem to be working pretty closely to build a consistent platform. While they've all got their own priorities, as ever, there's lots of collaboration in many areas. We've got cross-platform graphics, WebGL is almost useable, CSS support is good… and so on.

Compared to a few years ago, when we had to build sites that scaled from IE6 all the way to the iPhone, the web is much more uniform and pleasant to work with.

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by andybak on Friday August 15, 2014 @12:40PM (#8182954)
I think you've reached a slightly perverse conclusion.

From the source:

>Pointer events would likely never supplant touch events on the web (especially without support from Safari). Since touch events are here to stay, supporting another largely redundant input model has a high long-term complexity cost on the web platform.

Sounds to me like the Blink time is trying to use their say to reduce fragmentation and they've taken the side of practicality. Rough consensus and running code indeed.

The other points seem equally sensible to me (at least at first glance) - and a long way from "ignoring each other as much as possible while pursuing their own improvements"

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by fidotron on Friday August 15, 2014 @12:44PM (#8182981)
The Blink team have simply become the new IE style refuseniks, using mobile performance as the standard excuse. Mozilla, Apple and Microsoft have all been creating new "standard" APIs which no one else implements, yet in order to get best performance on their systems you have to use.

If you read the history of that bug someone rightly points out a key thing is MS have to support the pen on surface, and that was as important to MS there as multitouch was to Apple with iOS. Mobile performance is clearly that to the Chrome team, and this mismatch of priorities is what is at the root of the problem.

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by teleclimber on Friday August 15, 2014 @12:55PM (#8183043)
> The Blink team have simply become the new IE style refuseniks

Don't kid yourself. Sometimes it's the IE team that refuses to play along. Example: WebRTC.

Overall I feel that the cooperation between vendors on standards is quite good. but you can't expect all these mega corps to agree on everything all the time.

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by gtjrossi on Tuesday August 26, 2014 @05:50PM (#8229750)
On the contrary! I work on the IE team and we're playing along nicely. Google just joined us on the ORTC spec, which Chrome considers to be essentially Web RTC 1.1.

http://www.cnet.com/news/reconciliation-draws-closer-for-sky...

For IE implementation status, follow along here: http://status.modern.ie/webrtcobjectrtcapi

and check out our ORTC prototype: http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/prototypes/obje...

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by cromwellian on Sunday August 17, 2014 @04:03AM (#8188908)
You mean like Apple refusing Pointer Events first, or Mozilla refusing WebP, NaCL/PNaCl/Pepper, trying to refuse Web Audio, MS refusing WebGL, Canvas, Web Audio, WebRTC.

Every vendor fights their own turf battles. Not-invented-here seems to also be a big issue in standards committees.

Re:Blink won’t implement pointer events by Aldo_MX on Friday August 15, 2014 @12:44PM (#8182979)
Unless I want to use the newest APIs and features, the web technologies seem pretty good for my taste, I design/develop my websites in Chrome, and most of times, they work fine or need minor fixes in IE/Firefox.

I feel relieved now, compared with the old IE6 days.

Anyway, caniuse.com is a pretty good tool when I'm in doubt about using a new API/feature.