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Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by toyg on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @10:16AM (#8172973)
> I would say that for every whistle blower there is two spies who spy for Russia or China

That's an exaggeration, IMHO. This is not the Cold War, where many actors were moved by ideological considerations that crossed national borders (like the Cambridge Five, for example). Nowadays, national and cultural lines are extremely well drawn, so motivations for "traitors" boil down to money and/or blackmail, which are usually easier to defend against at the top level.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by nabla9 on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @10:43AM (#8173106)
I think records speak against your IMHO.

1. Ideology has not been the major modus operandi in long time (since 50's). Nowadays idealogical reasons are replaced by cultural and ethnic loyalties. Wast majority of people who spied for China have had Chinese heritage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_intelligence_operation...

2. Money and personal problems/reasons seems to be major reason for spying against US and for Soviet Union/Russia during and after cold war (Hanssen, Ames) According to American counterintelligence Russian espionage reached Cold War levels already in in 2007.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by differentView on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @12:18PM (#8173609)
>Wast majority of people who spied for China have had Chinese heritage.

Though I also believe this to be true, what we know for sure are that most of the people CAUGHT spying for China had Chinese heritage.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by electromagnetic on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @05:29PM (#8175107)
Exactly, its easy to spot a Chinese spy when you investigate your Chinese workers.

The notion that a spy is only someone loyal to a country is just quite frankly, silly.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by pekk on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @07:52PM (#8175516)
No one says that spies are always loyal to a country. It's not surprising that made-up positions are silly.
Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by toyg on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @11:06AM (#8173204)
your point 1 proves what I was saying: it's technically very easy to defend against Chinese spies -- just enact more stringent ethnic profiling. I'm not saying this is desirable, but even at very high level it clearly restricts attacking surface quite dramatically. The difficulties are political rather than technical in nature.

I partially agree with your point 2, but "according to American counterintelligence" the sky is falling every other day unless the spooks get more money and less supervision. Relying on government sources in a thread about Snowden feels a bit weird.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by alrs on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @05:31PM (#8175114)
Be sure to block all of the white guys with yellow fever, while you're at it.

No, it's not a "political" problem.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by pekk on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @07:53PM (#8175522)
Susceptibility to honeytraps is indeed a problem.
Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by logfromblammo on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @11:07AM (#8173211)
The Chinese spies are not in the NSA. They're in the Beltway Bandit and Silicon Valley companies, copying the source code for the drivers used in industrial machinery and weapons systems.

They are smart enough to make spying into a profitable business instead of just a mechanism to move tax dollars to the right people. And with respect to using it as a tool of oppression, we simply don't have anything new to teach them, as they just don't need to know anything about FISA courts or parallel construction.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by nostrademons on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @04:21PM (#8174831)
The Chinese spies are in China. They install malware onto the computers of American engineers in Silicon Valley, which then takes on the task of copying the source code needed for critical software systems.

This is the 21st century. There's no need to put yourself in physical danger by entering the country you wish to spy upon. Everything is done electronically.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by frandroid on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @04:48PM (#8174936)
I wish people backed their claims with evidence.
Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by prostoalex on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @08:43PM (#8175585)
Anecdotal evidence of an attack that didn't go as planned http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-10-10/thieves-spie...
Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by logfromblammo on Thursday August 14, 2014 @03:43PM (#8179436)
I hope you find that djinn djar someday. But you should know that just sitting back and saying "citation needed" is implicitly an ad hominem distraction attempting to discredit the speaker, and an invitation for that person to appeal to authority.

I prefer to think that everyone should always question everything I say, and independently verify my claims with their own trusted sources. Then, if they find contradictory information, they are free to share it, so that I might possibly disabuse myself of my prior misconceptions. (As you see, I also have need for wishes.)

Of course, if you have actual research funding for me, that's a different story. I'll give you as much evidence as you can afford.

Talk is cheap, and proof will cost you. If you want evidence, you might have to grab a shovel and start digging.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by nostrademons on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @04:52PM (#8174966)
Here's what's publicly available:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Aurora

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by jtzhou on Thursday August 14, 2014 @03:59AM (#8176503)
There are plenty more hard-working, tax-paying Chinese engineers and high skilled workers making up for the occasional spying incident. And the high-earning engineers pay much more in taxes to help fund the American counterespionage programs. It seems a worthy trade for US businesses.
Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by logfromblammo on Thursday August 14, 2014 @03:13PM (#8179271)
You know that the Chinese government can buy secrets from native-born citizens, too, right?

Workers in foreign countries and spying in those countries are not necessarily related in any way, aside from the occasional discount windfall that states get from assets with the right sense of patriotism, personal weakness, or political alignment.

There isn't really a trade happening there. The Chinese spying hurts everyone who is not a state-owned copycat company, regardless of their country of origin. The American spying hurts everyone who conducts business over the Internet or travels internationally. The ordinary Chinese people and American people get screwed both ways, because they're unimportant nobodies to the superpower state actors. So let's not get all defensive and start pointing fingers at each other, ok?

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by tinco on Thursday August 14, 2014 @06:42AM (#8176832)
It's not a trade. Those hard-working, tax-paying Chinese engineers would still come to the U.S., and U.S. companies would still gladly pay them for their services if the Chinese government did not embed espionage agents within them.

Neither the companies nor the Chinese engineers profit from this arrangement.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by arethuza on Wednesday August 13, 2014 @10:51AM (#8173145)
"which are usually easier to defend against at the top level"

I'm not so sure about that - it strikes me that spies motivated purely by ideology are pretty rare and were only created in rather unusual circumstances (e.g. pre-WW2 UK) while those who are motivated by fear/greed/ego could occur anywhere.

Re:Edward Snowden: The Untold Story by meowface on Thursday August 14, 2014 @09:03AM (#8177199)
The numbers may be off, but China and Russia likely each have at least 1 source in NSA.

And I'm sure the US has 1 or more sources in many other countries' signals intelligence agencies, too.

We would only ever learn about that if there's a CIA leak/whistleblower, though.