News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ten Thousand Years by rtpg on Saturday July 26, 2014 @09:34PM (#8091617)
We seem to have this huge fear of humanity collectively forgetting things, this idea that has seeped into so much fiction as well, but is it really founded?

Even before digital storage and the like, is there really any relevant information that has been lost in the past 150 years? And as to the whole "language barrier" thing, we figured out hieroglyphs with a much smaller corpus.

Hell, we know about the meaning of loads of sites from over a thousand years ago.

I feel like we'll have ways of knowing what the site contains forever.

Re:Ten Thousand Years by HarryHirsch on Saturday July 26, 2014 @10:29PM (#8091755)
I feel like we'll have ways of knowing what the site contains forever.

Consider Herodot's account (he lived in the 5th Century BC) about the circumnavigation of the African continent by a Phoenician expedition under Pharao Necho II, about 150 years earlier. The fleet set out in the Red Sea and returned three years later through the Strait of Gibraltar.

Herodot, who clearly had access to the original records, which have since been lost, like so much of Classical material, says that as they rounded the continent the sailors had the Sun to their right, but he, Herodot, cannot believe this because everyone knows that at noon the Sun is in the South. A more complete account of the matter is here: http://www.livius.org/he-hg/herodotus/hist01.htm

Knowledge is fragile, much more fragile than I like.

Re:Ten Thousand Years by hliyan on Saturday July 26, 2014 @09:48PM (#8091654)
An incredible amount of knowledge was 'lost' in the period between the Golden Age of Greece and the Dark Ages, including the ideas of spherical Earth and heliocentricity.

Also, if Earth were to take a direct hit from a large coronal mass ejection like the Carrington event of 1859, there is no telling how much data might be lost. "Forever" is never a good assumption to make about anything.

Re:Ten Thousand Years by robbles on Saturday July 26, 2014 @09:56PM (#8091686)
One problem with modern digital storage is the lifespan of the storage medium. Compact discs only last about 10 years, and the "longer-term" magnetic tapes are not much better at about 20-30 years [1].

It seems like we've made the tradeoff towards increased convenience of access vs. reliability, not the other way around. Hopefully new tech is developed that reverses this at some point, without relying on higher-level systems built on top of unreliable media (e.g. Amazon Glacier, Archive.org, etc.)

[1] http://sportsvideo.org/main/files/2010/08/video-tape-white-p...

Re:Ten Thousand Years by Dylan16807 on Sunday July 27, 2014 @09:00AM (#8092618)
A nice pressed disc using a metal that doesn't corrode isn't going to go anywhere for a long time.
Re:Ten Thousand Years by vinceguidry on Saturday July 26, 2014 @09:50PM (#8091665)
Maybe, maybe not. The civilization we enjoy today could be gone in a few hundred years, the Internet and it's semblance of informational permanence notwithstanding. I'm sure ancient Romans thought the Empire would last forever too.
Re:Ten Thousand Years by seszett on Sunday July 27, 2014 @05:23AM (#8092327)
> I'm sure ancient Romans thought the Empire would last forever too.

The Empire itself doesn't exist anymore sure, but I don't think the GP was talking about political structures.

Ancient Romans' culture never disappeared, we can still easily understand their language (some people can speak it, I learned it in school, and there's even a latin Wikipedia! and we still use it for creating new words in our modern languages) and their culture. Their culture has evolved into our modern European culture (mixed with others, to some degree), our modern democratic republican political systems are a mix of two systems both older than the Roman Empire, and there are no mysteries about aspects of their culture or infrastructure.

If the Romans had written a warning on a building in plain Latin about how entering it would unleash the wrath of the gods, we would have absolutely no problem to understand it.

We would still enter it, though, but not out of ignorance, we would enter it because we know we can today handle anything the Romans might have feared.

All in all, I think Romans are a pretty good example of how a powerful culture can stay understandable for several millenia.

Re:Ten Thousand Years by vinceguidry on Sunday July 27, 2014 @05:30PM (#8094049)
> If the Romans had written a warning on a building in plain Latin about how entering it would unleash the wrath of the gods, we would have absolutely no problem to understand it.

Today we can, the privileged few in our current golden age of technology and widespread literacy. Take the non-privileged masses in the US and elsewhere, they wouldn't know what to do with Latin script written on a building, even now. They wouldn't know how to translate it on the web, they wouldn't even know it was a warning.

Re:Ten Thousand Years by enraged_camel on Saturday July 26, 2014 @09:55PM (#8091683)
>>Hell, we know about the meaning of loads of sites from over a thousand years ago. I feel like we'll have ways of knowing what the site contains forever.

It's not about knowing the meaning of the site. It's about knowing the meaning of the site with little or no loss of critical information.

This may not seem like a big deal, but it actually is. Technology didn't improve that much between ten thousand years ago and 150 years ago. This is why we're able to examine ancient sites and kinda sorta make something out. But the rate of technological progress has been increasing, and this acceleration has no end in sight so far. What that means is that ten thousand years from now, our descendants may have no way of relating to the way we do things now. That's why we need to think really, really hard about how to make the information survive in a way that is still digestable to a hyper-advanced civilization.

Re:Ten Thousand Years by TeMPOraL on Saturday July 26, 2014 @10:29PM (#8091757)
> in a way that is still digestable to a hyper-advanced civilization

I don't think hyper-advanced civilization would have a problem with this - they would either have not lost the knowledge or be able to figure out the danger themselves by using their hyper-advanced sensors and stuff.

The problem is that if our civilization collapses and the Earth goes back to 2000 B.C., those folks will need some warning not to mess with a deadly force that is beyond their comprehention before they reach sufficient level of advancement to know what they're dealing with.

Re:Ten Thousand Years by notahacker on Sunday July 27, 2014 @03:39PM (#8093740)
In fairness, if the earth goes back to 2000BC then after the billions of premature deaths resulting from the causes of the collapse of civilization and the resulting loss of food and healthcare, the high death rates suffered by certain tribes locating themselves in the vicinity of certain ruins would be a footnote in history.
Re:Ten Thousand Years by Spooky23 on Sunday July 27, 2014 @12:39AM (#8092016)
We've had the good fortune of not destroying our civilization in the last 150 years (we have tired very hard to do so), so that proposition doesn't hold much value.

Consider how we figure out what sites meant 1000+ years ago... We dig them up.

Doing that to a waste disposal site would be phenomenally bad.