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Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by jmsdnns on Monday June 09, 2014 @12:53PM (#7869244)
I first saw the name "bro" and thought, "ohh geez..." but then I took a look and found this is coming from very serious people. The kind of people that wouldn't make a brogrammer joke.

Can anyone explain the name of the project?

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by bri3d on Monday June 09, 2014 @12:57PM (#7869254)
Here's the original paper where the project is described:

http://www.icir.org/vern/papers/bro-CN99.html

The name is short for "big brother" - an Orwell reference.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by tptacek on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:00PM (#7869266)
That paper is from 1999, but Bro probably predates that; I talked to Vern in person about Bro when we wrote our 1998 "Insertion Evasion" paper --- Vern had independently discovered many of the same design flaws we did and captured them in the Bro paper.

Vern Paxson is extraordinarily serious; he was part of the LBL network research group team, alongside Van Jacobsen and Steve McCanne and Sally Floyd. That was one of the most famous network research teams in... well, the history of the Internet.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by gonzo on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:13PM (#7869321)
let's not forget Craig Leres.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by krakensden on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:00PM (#7869263)
Additionally, the name predates brosteria by several years.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by tptacek on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:02PM (#7869277)
It's simply not a brogrammer joke. That's all there is to say about it.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by Steuard on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:21PM (#7869356)
I hate to say it, but despite their prior claim to the name, today's reality means that the name will be a persistent distraction from the underlying product.

It's not remotely fair, but that doesn't make it untrue. Just ask the diet pill company from the early 1980s that used to advertise "Ayds helps you control your appetite so you lose weight!" Or the many Hindus today who are frustrated that their Swastika earrings get mistaken for an endorsement of Nazism.

Bro culture in tech is a poison, and one of the many crappy things about poison is its tendency to contaminate otherwise harmless things that happen to be nearby.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by mitchty on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:34PM (#7869429)
Bro culture has nothing to do with it.

Go watch a couple of the developers talk about Bro on FLOSS weekly a few weeks ago here: http://twit.tv/show/floss-weekly/296

In short, they acknowledge the possible confusion but honestly I think we are getting way too hypersensitive here in America.

Out of curiosity, if everyone saying the word Bro has a negative connotation could state where they are I have a suspicion this is a predominately California thing.

If we keep treating words with such distaste we are basically just practicing a form of newspeak or censorship. Is it possibly deserved? Maybe, but I think we are overreacting here to be honest.

This is an OLD project, saying it should change just to appease the pathos of certain programming communities seems premature.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by tptacek on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:27PM (#7869397)
Are you at all familiar with Bro? Could you, for instance, state some ways that it's different than it's leading open source competitor? (It would also be good if you knew who that was.) Or for that matter any of the innovations that Bro introduced?

If you can, I'll take your argument seriously (although, fair warning, I'll take it seriously long enough to beat it to death with a shovel).

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by Steuard on Monday June 09, 2014 @02:37PM (#7869758)
I have not the slightest familiarity with Bro or its competitors, and I wouldn't dream of pretending to. My comment here is entirely from the perspective of an outsider hearing about the project and trying to figure out whether learning more about it could be valuable to me.

I can see at least two very sensible ways in which the concern that I've shared here could be unimportant (and you may see others). I don't even know enough to know to what degree either applies here.

One might be if nobody but an established specialist in the field would ever have a need to assess, use, or contribute to Bro or its competitors. In that case, the negative associations with the name would be unimportant: the specialists would be fully invested in the technical details, and the name wouldn't have any substantial exposure to the broader tech community. (The only cost would be occasional unimportant dust-ups when that exposure happens, as in this case.)

Another might be if there is a good chance that the importance of this project will outlast the public prominence of bro culture in tech. (Given the longevity of Bro to date and the promising backlash against bro culture, that seems quite plausible.) In that case, it might be entirely sensible to just weather the current storm of negative associations and trust that everyone will have forgotten brogrammers in five years. (That's only fully applicable if they really are forgotten, though, rather than being a lingering negative memory.)

You may have other reasonable arguments for setting aside the concerns that I've raised as well. But I do think that occasional undeserved distractions because of the name are inevitable, and I could imagine them being a real problem.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by GHFigs on Monday June 09, 2014 @03:26PM (#7870014)
But I do think that occasional undeserved distractions because of the name are inevitable, and I could imagine them being a real problem.

Have you considered the possibility that you're being that distraction and creating that problem?

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by tptacek on Monday June 09, 2014 @02:50PM (#7869810)
This comment is extremely unproductive. Unfortunately, that's the whole of the response I believe it merits. I'm sure you'll write many useful things elsewhere on the site; this just isn't one of them.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by mikecb on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:51PM (#7869528)
Every time this is posted, and this discussion happens, I am reminded to never judge a brook by its cover.

Edit: I'm going to leave that typo as is.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by alxndr on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:13PM (#7869318)
I had the same reaction.

If they're going for a Big Brother reference, why not a name like BB or George[Orwell] or something from Newspeak?

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by Zikes on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:16PM (#7869339)
Because there is nothing wrong with the word "bro".
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by drivingmenuts on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:22PM (#7869368)
Seriously?

Denotatively, it's meaningless. Connotatively, it's turned into a pretty objectionable term, in my opinion.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by Zikes on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:34PM (#7869430)
Yes, seriously. It's just a word, like "sis" or "gal" or "the", and has no inherent negative or positive connotations.

Somebody has invented drama around this word, some other people have bought into it, and now more people are just trying to stir it up again because Hacker News has somehow gone a whole two days without senseless bickering.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by gohrt on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:58PM (#7869565)
> has no inherent negative or positive connotations.

That's not how 'connotation' works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connotation

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by forgottenpass on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:32PM (#7869420)
There's no getting around it anymore. We have to accept the fact Bay Area startup culture has turned a term of endearment into a gendered slur.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by Zikes on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:43PM (#7869480)
So we grow a backbone and tread on, ignoring the people trying to manufacture scandal for their own entertainment or empowerment, or we let one city's subculture control the rights to the English language.

I choose the former.

Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by obvious_throw on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:57PM (#7869560)
That is, until you get fired from your job for thoughtcrime. Being politically correct and believing/saying the right things is required for employment in the tech industry now.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by mkr-hn on Wednesday June 18, 2014 @08:18AM (#7909647)
Nope. Still going to call my big bro bro, and my friend-bros bro. Most of them have never heard of this manufactured conflict.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by Permit on Monday June 09, 2014 @01:17PM (#7869343)
The simplest explanation is that the project was started and named far before the term "brogrammer" was coined.
Re:Bro Network Security Monitor by alxndr on Wednesday June 11, 2014 @02:53PM (#7879734)
Wow, really rubbed some bros the wrong way with that thought. Ha.